Yaris Sedan Deadening and Sound system upgrade

[Shinare]

I've used the clear hot glue to try and immobilize my sirius radio windshield suction mount from shaking and in the summer the glue melted and dripped all over my dash board. That black stuff must have a MUCH higher melting point, and thus need a hotter glue gun to use?

[Palmer812]

I know it won't hold up to weight. He was asking about attaching grill cloth to the back side of the a pillar.

[derickveliz2]

Thanks guys, I have never seen black hot glue around here. I'll look into it

I'm aware that the Dash-Mat cloth will show up in the edges like a cushion because it has foam backing about 1/8th of an inch. And that may help absorbing and prevent sound bouncing around.

I may be going nuts here and over designing the environment, it may not even be noticeable to my ears! but something I did notice is that every little thing I've done to my car, it all adds up with great results, that is why I'm trying to go the extra step covering the a-pillars with a thicker material...

Here is the cloth, I have black.

[derickveliz2]

A couple of L6s arrived...

we are still waiting for the PowerBass amp and the IDQ5 12" sub.

I still have enough time for more sanding.

[derickveliz2]

This is the direct LINK just in case goes away online I copied here...

What is Sound Quality and How to Achieve It
Sound Design - Understanding SQ for Better Car Audio
by Mark Eldridge , Nov 16, 2010


The combination of cars, music and great-sounding mobile audio systems is a big part of many people's lives, not just car audio enthusiasts. Some like it loud; the physical experience (like feeling the sub bass in your chest) of sitting in a high-dB car is a significant part of the enjoyment. These people feel obligated to share their music with everyone and broadcast it outside their cars. Others are more concerned with absolutely accurate reproduction of a recording at any desired listening level. Of course, some people just want a cool customized car. Aside from those purely in it for cosmetic upgrades, everyone would probably agree that hte bottom line is your system should sound great.

What Does it Take to Make a System Sound Great?

Designing and creating a hifi audio system is much more than about simply buying expensive components and installing them wherever they fit. In fact, it is commonly agreed upon that any system's sound quality depends more on good installation techniques than the actual components. Of course, it is always a good idea to start with the best components possible. But at the same time, allow enough time and money in the budget to install the equipment to the highest standards. Remember, a less expensive speaker installed properly will sound better than a more expensive speaker installed poorly.

What Does SQ Mean?

First things first: let's not confuse sound quality with personal tastes. Different people may prefer varying types of music, listening levels, tonal balance, etc., but these qualities are simply personal preferences. Instead of focusing on preferences, let's look at how we might compare the relative sound quality of two audio systems. Let's use two identical cars, each with a modestly priced audio system able to play at very high volumes. The cost of each system is about the same, but there are significant design differences.

1. The first is simply a factory system using OE head unit, amps and speakers for the high frequencies, with a very high-powered subwoofer amp and subs added to it. The gain on the sub amp is cranked up so the sub-bass is really loud relative to the rest of the music.

2. The second system is a good quality OE integration system with the factory head unit equalization corrected so that a good quality high-frequency amp and speaker system can be used in addition to the sub amp and subwoofer designed to work appropriately with the rest of the system. It is capable of very clean, dynamic, undistorted output at high levels. The speakers are installed in the factory locations, but attention is paid to controlling panel resonances and sealing any gaps and holes in the mounting system. The relative levels of the sub frequency range and higher frequencies are matched so that the system accurately reproduces the music as it is recorded on the disc.

The same music is played on both systems and turned to the same moderate volume level. Which one do you think most people will say sounds better? Crank it to a really high level. Which one will likely sound better? While a few hardcore bass freaks may initially go for the system with the excessively high sub-bass output, if they listen for a while, they will eventually gravitate towards the second system with its lower distortion level, better dynamic range and smoother, more evenly matched frequency response. Besides, the second system can easily be tweaked for higher bass output if desired, maybe with the addition of more subs later on, and still reproduce the music cleanly and dynamically.

Let's Take a Look at a Third Example

3. This system incorporates the same amps and speakers in the the previous example, but the speakers are installed in custom enclosures and placement is designed for optimal control of the speakers' outputs. The structure and interior of the vehicle are treated to dampen panel resonances and eliminate some highly reflective areas in the passenger compartment. Additionally, high quality processors are incorporated so the system can be finely tweaked. The system user has total control over how the system can sound.

Now we're talking serious potential for outstanding SQ at any playback level.


Absolute SQ?

Major audio companies have done several very intense studies to determine the range of preferences amongst many different types of listeners, from hardcore audiophiles to everyday casual listeners to fanatical bassheads to recording engineers to people with no real listening experience or expressed preferences. The results have indicated that while there are some differences in what people prefer, when it's about how a system might sound, there is a pretty narrow range for what all of them perceive as sounding good. For example, many people prefer an overall flat frequency response that accurately reproduces the music as it is recorded. Another group might like more bass output and might initially turn the sub level way up to 30 dB (1,000 times the power) above the level of the high frequencies. But after a relatively short time, they will likely turn it back down to some modest level above the high frequencies so that they can also hear the rest of the music. When given the choice, almost everyone will agree that a system with a smooth not excessively over-emphasized tonal balance and the capability to reproduce the entire frequency bandwidth cleanly and dynamically sounds better than another that has parts of the frequency spectrum severely out of proportion relative to the rest of the sound.

What's the Goal?

Imagine for a moment that you are in the same space in which a recording is being made. This may be a medium-sized recording studio, the Meyerson Symphony Hall in Dallas, Texas, or maybe a small, smoke-filled club. When you close your eyes you can hear each instrument and vocalist and can pinpoint where each is located. Every strike of a piano string, the raspy sound of a trumpet, the crisp attack and decay of the drums, the clean, airy transients when a cymbal is truck, the force and detail of the singer's voice, the power of an amplified guitar. It's really loud, but it sounds awesome! It's the real thing! Live music! You can hear the audience around you (if there is one). You can hear how the music fills the space and you have a true sense of the overall room just by listening to it. Your ears tell you everything about it. All of these things and more make up the total musical experience.

The ultimate goal for the highest caliber systems is to reproduce this experience in the car: every detail, every nuance, every note of every instrument or vocal performance, the ambience of the room in which it was recorded, the dynamic qualities, and yes, every flaw in the performance and recording. This is quite a daunting goal that no mobile audio system has ever absolutely achieved (although a few have gotten close).

But a great place to start with any system is to design it so that it can, as much as possible within the financial and time constraints, accurately reproduce the recordings we play at any level. If the system can do this, it can be easily changed and tweaked to do anything else that a listener might want it to do, like cleanly and dynamically emphasize the lower frequency region. But if a system is designed from the outset to only emphasize specific areas it may never be able to do anything that.

The Recordings We Listen to

The quality of the recordings has a tremendous impact on how the final presentation will sound. Some recordings are very dynamic, clean, undistorted, and when reproduced on a really good quality audio system can convey a true sense of what the live performance sounded like with realistic impact, excellent tonal balance and accurate staging and imaging properties. This used to be the standard for almost all recordings, even a few years ago, when CDs were the norm and radio stations were relatively concerned with producing a reasonably decent signal for listeners.

But with the advent of lower-quality media storage systems, the need for short music download times and the fact that radio stations and many listeners are more concerned with producing a signal that is "louder" than everyone else's, recordings are very compressed and quite often clipped and distorted, all in the name of simply being "louder than the other guy." So today, really good-quality recordings are not the norm. The vast majority of popular recordings are not very dynamic and often are recorded at levels beyond the limits of the digital recording medium (so they're clipped and distorted in the recording before it even gets to your audio system), sometimes with greatly emphasized frequency-response variations.

There are some jewel recordings in the popular music rough there, but they are fewer in number every year.

What Aspects of Sound Quality are Most Important?

What two people hear when listening to the same music varies. For example, at a performance one may focus on the overall sound of the band, the acoustics of the room, etc., while the other may tune into the singer and guitar primarily. A very experienced, critical listener will likely listen to every part of the sound and form an opinion based on all the many parts. Someone else, listening simply for the social enjoyment and interaction experience, will form their opinion primarily on their overall emotional response to the performance, the visual aspects of the concert, etc. And even though each of us may focus on different parts of the music when listening, there are certain aspects to the sound that must be in solid proportion for anyone to say it sounds good.

The partial list below includes some of the many different characteristics related to sound quality. They are prioritized, with the first few being important to almost everyone, while the latter items are critical for fewer people.

Our priorities change depending on the situation at hand. While driving to work listening to the radio, we may be concerned only with frequency response and low distortion. When cruising on Friday night, dynamic range and maximum loudness capabilities are more important. And if the system is entered in a sound quality competition, or we want to critically listen to some fine recordings, every aspect related to SQ is critical.

Frequency and Phase Response
-Full range reproduction
-No wide holes or big peaks
-Smooth transitions between frequency bands

Distortion or Noise
-Clean output, even at max volume
-No low-level gain hiss
-No engine or other induced noises

Dynamic Range of Capability
-How hard will it hit?
-No power compression at high volume
-High S/N ratio
-Solid, defined impact and transient response

Not just Continual, Non-top High Volume
-Wide dynamic range in recordings (crest factor)

Maximum Loudness
-How loud does it play?

Spatial Qualities
-Staging, imaging, ambience (room effect)

Listening Space Acoustical Properties
-Low ambient noise level (road noise, etc.)
-Reflective and absorptive interiors

Psychoacoustic and Visual Effects
-Clean, well-executed installation
-No speakers jammed closely against the listening positions
-Not closed in (claustrophobic phenomenon)

Component Selection

Choosing the components to use in an audio system should be approached with the end goal in mind. While you may not be able to afford all the components in your dream system up front, it is a great idea to lay out a plan so you can build towards that ultimate goal in the future. For example. if you want to eventually have a dedicated sub amp, a separate high-frequency amp and speakers to go with them but can't afford everything now, you have a couple of options.

Rather than buying that big sub amp and multiple subs first, consider buying a multi-channel amp, along with a set of front high-frequency speakers and a single subwoofer. Bridge two channels on the sub and use the other channels for the front speakers.

You may also want to invest in some sound treatment and damping materials early in the system-building process to eliminate panel vibrations and unwanted road noise. A little bit of acoustical treatment will go a very long way towards creating a great system. Later, after saving enough pennies, you can buy the dedicated sub amp, another sub and another set of high-frequency speakers for the rear of the car. Then you can add additional processors to really tweak the system. Taking an approach like this can give you a good-sounding system through every step of the system design/building journey.

Controlling All of the Variables

Here are some of the things you need to know to put together a true sound quality system: advanced fabrication techniques, acoustics, speaker placement, precise crossover setting, signal delay, equalization techniques and system gain setting, to mention only the most immediate topics. It is physically impossible in this article to convey all of the information necessary to accomplish the ultimate goal of creating an absolutely kick-ass audio system. In fact, a year's worth of articles couldn't do the topic justice. And no single source can provide all the tools, knowledge and skills needed to push the SQ limits of every system you design, build and tune. The entire package must come from a combination of sources, as well as practical application experience.

You can spend a lot of time reading articles on CAE or other resources, but the best thing you do is get some hands- and ears-on experience, especially if you can have someone very experienced helping you along the way.

Something Else to Think About…

Making a mobile audio system sound great and even approach the quality of a truly great studio or home system is difficult at best. Having the skills to be able to design, build and tune any system to its limits is a rare quality these days. Most of the mobile audio systems today are nowhere close to sounding as good as they could. The few in the industry today that can make any system sound good are often doing really good business and sometimes install only high-end systems on really nice cars.

If you can remember, though, that in the end it's really all about the music and pursue the goal of car audio perfection for itself, the other gains, if you will, are simply bound to follow.



That was reading

Derick

[derickveliz2]

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I like this part...

"a less expensive speaker installed properly will sound better than a more expensive speaker installed poorly."

...

[Palmer812]

[QUOTE=sqcomp;534766]There is truth in that last one...

The real challenge is getting into WHY things sound the way they do...

Head Related Transfer Function, InterModulation Distortion, Interaural Time Difference, and Interaural Intensity Difference are some terms you'll run into when asking why does my soundstage do (or not do) certain things when listening.[/QUOTE

Reading that made my head hurt! lol!

[sqcomp]

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[derickveliz2]

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If there are 2 types of speakers characteristics:

-Free Air (no need of enclosure just a baffle)
-Enclosure specific (XX cubic feet of internal volume)

So I asked my self?... is the internal volume of the spheres enough for the HL-70 to perform properly?

I email Hertz and they told me it's a Free Air driver and for my application I need at least 1 Liter = 61.0237 in³ of internal volume. According to my math a 5" sphere is about 65 in³ so I should be OK, but "NO" I measured the spheres and real dimensions have a 4.5" diameter less the sides I cut short to match the a-pillars... I did a water test to find out the internal volume and it's a little under 1/2 liter.

I guess I'm going to have to open a second hole into the A-pillars to vent the enclosure for proper driver performance. Also will use some Poly Fill.

.

[sqcomp]

*

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

...You didn't know this BEFORE? *smack*

I kind of knew, but never realized on the effects on such a small driver and how it will play lower frequencies from 200 Hz to 14k Hz. The Spheres as sealed enclosures could affect it's performance, but if I open them into the a-pillar I won't have a problem.

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

Have you figured the solution?

Make a big hole between the spheres and the a-pillars to vent true them, kind of like you did to your kicks to let the L8s breath, but in a much smaller scale; the HL-70 are only 3"

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[derickveliz2]

Here is a little bit more work on the spheres...

What I thought it would be flat black came out brown, ...

Any way at the end I may end up "FLOCKING" the spheres and the a-pillars, SQ, Palmer or any body else... do you know how to do it? I've been searching online and can't find a DIY

Spheres with primer and some spray paint:

[derickveliz2]

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I found this Site with Flocking materials...


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[Alien Mantis]

I was wondering if I would ever live long enough to see this project finished.

But now I realize that I will NOT.

SqComp: get out while you still can!

It is THE NEVERENDING STORY! You have been sucked into "the nothing" !

Falcor, Atreyu, save us!

[derickveliz2]

I brought the spheres up stairs, for my wife to see... she surprised me and said..."They look pretty good"

So for now they are going to live like that, maybe add some soft texture and a flat black look; then after everything is installed I'll think about flocking or not.

I have to get smaller Threaded Inserts to hold the HL-70s to the spheres, the ones I got are a tad too big.

AM... save the best for last!

.

[derickveliz2]

HAPPY TURKEY DAY EVERY BODY!

[derickveliz2]

Black looks much better!