Mk2 supra

[Ben_]

So I've been looking at a second car for a while and I've been thinking about picking up a mk2 celica/supra

I have a specific car in mind an 84 with a 5mge

Curious about all your oppinions about this car for a second car and for auto x/racing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ABSPLASTIC]

Just get a MKIV Supra :p

[Lux]

Here's some background, from my own words, on what used to be Toyota's GT legend and it's rivals during its golden age. Maybe it will teach some folks what it was like during an automobile era when the market's evolution was exciting... and when respect was earned and not misappropriated.




Toyota's lineage of A platform code cars (A46, A60, A70, A80), once called the "Supra dynasty" in Japan 25 years ago, was a series of well-equipped grand tourers (GT sports coupés). The Supra earned a reputation for good comfort, good power, and good behaviour among the bends from its advanced overhead camshaft inline 6 engine (Toyota M engine) and tuned suspension with disk brakes. The Supra, alongside its rival, the Datsun Z car, was part of a wave of imports from Asia and Europe that dominated American auto industry with technologically advanced and nimble automobiles which proved that consistency trumped potential over any American competitive muscle design; this invasion followed shortly after the 1970 oil crisis.

The two most influential and industrially significant models of Supra lineage are the second and third generations: A60 and A70. There is absolutely no informed or statistical argument against that point... they were the kings of Supra heritage because of the competitive environment that they had endured and pioneering of many new technologies that were required to remain in contention.

The real Supra story starts at the end of the 1970s....

Agility, composure, and long-distance comfort were in peak demand by consumers at the time. Even a lot of American powerhouses softened up around this era in order to comply with demands (notable example: Ford Capri). However, the showstoppers in North America of the time came off of boats from the Far East...

The A60 Supra and S130 Fairlady Z were the two Japanese giants that competed neck-and-neck with one another, often trading punches every annual product refresh, with no clear winner in sight. Both cars resorted to hollowing out their flagship inline-6 engines from 2.0 litres to 2.8 litres in an attempt to outdo the other. Toyota's major breakthrough of that era was their "Twin-Cam", the treasured offspring from their collusion with Yamaha for the Toyota 2000GT supercar. The new, highly advanced double overhead camshaft cylinder head on top of their upstroked M engine produced an absolutely whopping 180 PS. Datsun replied the year after by fitting a turbocharger to their 2.8 litre and produce the same peak horsepower as the Supra: 180 PS. By contrast, the supposed American retaliation -- still struggling to harness fuel injection -- was not much more than a complete waste of time in those years. Even with no clear winner, the Supra was often referred to as "the gentleman's choice" (almost a decade before the Lexus story began) of the two due to its nicer interior appointments and smooth composure on the road. However, the Supra traded some agility to accomplish that characteristic, so the Datsun/Nissan Fairlady Z development strayed towards emulating its incredible race success in American motor racing at the time.

Mid to late '80s.... the golden era of turbines and electronic fuel injection. And the most bitter of automobile GT rivalries.

Nissan, realising that they could no longer develop their aging L engine any further and watching their competitive advantage in motor racing diminish, decided to abandon the L engine in favour of all-new cast iron 60º V6 family, called the Nissan VG engine. The entirely new Fairlady Z chassis was so advanced and such a departure from the previous generation, that it was graced with birthing a new Nissan body lineage apart from its outgoing S body: the Z platform code. The new Z31 Fairlady Z enjoyed three years of absolute Japanese turbocharged domination before Toyota replied with the all-new Supra: the A70. The highly advanced Nissan had such an effect on the industry that Toyota developed its new Supra to be entirely separate from its restrictive Celica base in order to maximise potential performance. However, the new Supra would be facing some fierce, well-established competition of this era from newly upgraded American sports coupés: the Ford Mustang GT (Fox platform) and Chevrolet Camaro Z28 (F platform). Resorting to enormous engines in order to stay competitive, the Americans had 3 years to massage their V8 blocks into fuel-injected axle-breakers, producing upwards of 225 PS, which traded punches with the turbocharged Nissan 300 ZX, where the Z's nimbleness often allowed it to escape the American V8 onslaught.

May 1986. After a slightly rushed development in order to remain competitive, the new Supra was released to critical acclaim. After much hesitation, Toyota opted to further develop their aging M engine into the new 3.0-litre 7M-GE engine. I have heard rumours that JZ engine development was behind schedule, fed by the M engine's unusually long service life and Toyota's reluctance (arrogance?) to let go of the vintage M. With double overhead camshaft, Yamaha-designed high-performance valvetrain, electronic fuel injection, and tuned intake system, it produced a respectable 200 PS upon release. However, the majority of its acclaim was owed to its sensational redesign: superior aerodynamics (0.34 Cd), elegant but highly functional cabin, excellent engine power and torque delivery, precision 5-speed gearbox, optional LSD, superb road composure and predictable handling, new highly advanced active suspension dampers (TEMS), fantastic build quality (benefiting from the secretive Lexus manufacturing quality developments at the time), and bulletproof reliability. Even with the modest, but high-tech, 7M-GE engine, the new Supra's presence reignited competition. The Camaro IROC-Z responded with a new fuel-injected 5.7-litre (GM L98 engine) V8 flexing 230 PS; and the Mustang converted to multiport fuel injection that yielded up to 225 PS. The new improvements in American power were immediately apparent when the Supra and 300 ZX Turbo began to fall behind by the end of the year, only 7 months after the Supra's release.

January 1987. Toyota's hushed developments on the A70 Supra came to fruition at the start of the new year: the first Toyota Supra Turbo. Now, with the new 7M-GTE engine producing an incredible 230 PS, the American V8 advantage was crushed practically overnight by the upgraded Supra. Co-developed with Hitachi, the new turbocharger configuration -- combined with advanced distributorless ignition system (three coil pack pairs), super fast ECU electronics, TEMS active dampers, high-speed aero package, new super heavy-duty 5-speed gearbox, and mechanical clutch-pack LSD -- propelled the Supra ahead of its competition, where it stayed, unchallenged, for the next two years. The Nissan's flagship GT was so harshly affected by the Supra's success that sales of the 300 ZX dropped by 66% over the following year. The A70 Supra Turbo was king of the '80s grand tourer segment in North America until an unusually quiet rival, Nissan, fired the first warning shot back home of the beginning of the 1990s and an impending Japanese economic recession.

Nissan, learning from its resounding defeat by the Supra, quietly discontinued their Z31 in 1989 in favour of the beautifully redesigned Z32, which took several features from the Toyota Supra Turbo and further developed them to a very high degree: active aerodynamics, active suspension, air-to-air intercooled twin turbochargers, and LSD. However, the fateful month and death knell to all competition back home, in Japan, of the 1980s was August 1989, when Godzilla was born: the Nissan Skyline GT-R.

Unfortunately, the highly competitive atmosphere of grand tourers fell flat by 1991 due to a severe Japanese economic recession. Sales were horrible across board for all sports cars, with the A70 Supra selling a pathetic 1'193 units in its final year of production, 1992. The all-new, now-highly advanced supercar hunter, the A80 Toyota Supra, fared no better during its tenure in the North American market. Where the A60 Supra sold 34'048 units upon release in 1982, and the A70 Supra sold 33'823 units when it bowed in in 1986, the A80 Supra moved a measly 2'887 units in its first year, 1993. That number continued to drop until Toyota made the decision to axe the Supra from all global markets in 1998, but continued to produce Japan-only units until August 2002.

Yes, the A80 Supra is popular these days, but not because of its industrial merits and accomplishments in the automotive industry. No, the A80 Supra is popular because of only two things: Paul Walker and YouTube. The prestige of the Supra nameplate stagnated due to the industry's progression during the Japanese recession and having caught up with what Toyota was hoping to be a continuation of their 1980s glory. Compare that harsh reality against the peak of the Supra dynasty in the 1980s and you will quickly realise that the golden age of the Toyota Supra ended almost 25 years ago. Furthermore, the A80 Supra was, in some ways, just another Japanese sports car considering that Mitsubishi's GTO VR-4, Nissan's Skyline GT-R, Mazda's RX-7 Type-RZ, and Honda's NSX Type-R, were in contention with -- and often surpassed -- the Toyota in almost every measure, leaving the A80 Supra with little else to prey on other than some pathetic American competition at the time.



The End.






Oh , yeah, the second generation (A60) Supra is alright. By contrast, the A70 Supra, due to its complexity, certainly requires a very high degree of skill and dedication to resuscitate, so avoid it unless you are committed to it. The A60 is a good piece of Toyota vintage... I say go for it. An old colleague of mine just picked up a beautifully maintained MA60 a few months ago.

However, the Supra does not make for a good autocross car, nor is it competitive in road racing. Even with front double wishbone geometry and all-wheel disk brakes, you are fighting the very nature of a grand tourer: sporty but compliant ride. It is possible to work a Supra to be more nimble like a Nissan Z car, but it will take some suspension and chassis work, including adding some rigidity to the chassis. A better platform to work with would be the heavier A70 Supra because of upgrade brakes, driveline, and suspension. It is also rear double wishbone geometry, good for comfort and road courses with many undulations, but will require more maintenance because of complexity and electronics. The naturally aspirated 7M-GE is actually a pretty good engine all around. A good exhaust manifold and exhaust, intake, lighter flywheel, and a little weight reduction will turn the MA70 into a pretty competent weekend cruiser with some old school grunt that harks back to the old days before turbochargers.

Cliff's notes: good car to collect, not to compete.

[Ben_]

Wow. What a history lesson :) thank you for your reply

Even though I am a huge Toyota fanboy and if their cars are good I wouldn't have any other brand (i LOVE my Yaris)

That said I've thought before that the mk4 supra is all bark and no bite. It seems to excel only in drag racing, which might be fun for kids, but I've found myself entangled in the gentlemans sport of auto x and the Yaris is no longer sadisfying my newfound appetite for speed and competition.

From your post it would appear the car I was looking for was a 240z

It's interesting how I ended up finding this car anyways. I've been chatting with my friends often about purchasing a second car just for auto x, cruising, and car meets. I've decided to pursue a rwd Japanese sports car. I had a very scary experience in an mr2 so I've been trying to stay away from that. Other than the mr2 Toyota seems to fail in offering anything else which can offer reasonable power and good handling for my budget of 3k MAX 5k

I've considered many cars like an sn95 mustang (because cheap and insane availability for cars and parts), sc400 manual swap (because it's a Toyota and the beautiful uz engine), Miata (because cheap and handling like nobody's business), and the c4 corvette (the car that began this search but I think it's out of my price range)

I'm coming to realize that I'm looking for something that doesn't exist because I have inserted too many parameters

I'm thinking if the supra I'm looking at can be fun and reliable in its current form and the price is right I'll take it. I think there is no doubt it will be a fun car but will not be very competitive against veterans. Though it should be quicker than the Yaris I'm thinking

Either way it's a beautiful body style and amazing engine nite, but I think the owner is asking wayyyy too much



Owner wants 3.2k. The car was half restored by a man a few miles away from me. He rebuilt the motor and suspension and put lowering springs on it with koni shocks

Anyways thanks for your reply I found it very helpful and also entertaining if you can believe that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[why?]

MK2 Supra's are awesome, but the owners always want to much. That is a $500 car at most. You would not believe what it would cost to make it decent. Supra Interior pieces are insanely expensive.

There are MK2 Supra forums, and a couple of companies reproduce the stock parts.

My Dad owns a 1982 Supra he bought brand new. It really handles amazingly well, and the engine feels stronger than its quoted power output.

[Ben_]

I didn't buy it. Ends out it has an ignition issue and a ruined body beyond repair. Worth $300


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Freestylin]

Dang. Are you going to look for another one? I think MK2 Supras are very nice! "Don't let your dreams be dreams."

[Ben_]

Nope not looking for another. In my search for a used car I'm looking for a good auto x car which means reliable and 80s cars around 3k are not


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lux]

Hi Ben_,

I apologise for not following up with your thread. I hope you are still around.

Whether for competition or for road use, the A60 Supra is a fair choice. Its sound performance makes it a capable car to pump around, but be warned that many parts are obsolete for the vehicle.

A common issue is the power steering system leaking from the high pressure line and/or the pump. You may never find a hydraulic line (fabricating one is not difficult), but Toyota used to make fantastic pump rebuild kits that were the preferred method if the vanes and chamber were not severely damaged. The pumps normally leaked from the shaft seal. Not surprisingly, the power steering pump in my A70 Supra Turbo is also leaking at the same place.

I would steer clear from a vintage S30 240 Z and S130 280 Z due to their scarcity and typically poor condition... attrition has claimed the lives of most. The later Z31 300 ZX would be more viable if you still seek a vintage '80s era Japanese GT. Electronic fuel injection in the Z31 will be an appealing attribute if you desire to tune for more power, especially with the Turbo model.

An A70 Supra is, perhaps, most desirable because of (relative to its Japanese compatriots) more extensive aftermarket parts supply and performance potential. Just mind the sophisticated electronics and stay away from the Turbo model unless you are willing or capable of sustaining roadworthiness. In spite of its impressive power and capability, the Toyota Supra Turbo is not a forgiving or cheap car to keep.

[Ben_]

I ended up not purchasing the supra. It was in terrible condition contrary to what the seller was saying