Any benefit to shifting the auto from D to N at a stop? - Toyota Yaris Forums

BailOut · 09-15-2007, 07:32 PM

Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't so. Please think twice and ensure you are knowledgeable on the subject at hand before the next time you give advice.

alhope34 · 09-15-2007, 08:40 PM

I never change to N at a light. Like others have said, it is not necessary to do so.

And turning off the engine at a light is just silly... It is really annoying to be stuck behind someone standing there trying to crank their car over and get it in gear properly. I don't know what the laws are like in other places, but in Ontario that is considered "standing" which on just about all main roads is illegal, ESPECIALLY in the left lanes. I have seen cops pull over people who turn off their engines at red lights and I have heard that the tickets can be more than $100 depending on how annoyed the cop is.

caveatipse · 09-15-2007, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BailOut

Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't so. Please think twice and ensure you are knowledgeable on the subject at hand before the next time you give advice.

And just because you believe it does not make it so. Why don't we both do some more scientific research and then share our findings? I certainly could be wrong, but I have read that before. I will check again.

BailOut · 09-16-2007, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caveatipse

And just because you believe it does not make it so. Why don't we both do some more scientific research and then share our findings? I certainly could be wrong, but I have read that before. I will check again.

The day you top my 52.5 MPG record we will talk.

caveatipse · 09-16-2007, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BailOut

The day you top my 52.5 MPG record we will talk.

But I am not talking about gas mileage. I would imagine that, yes, gas mileage is better if you turn your engine off every time you stop. I was actually talking about wear and tear on the engine and the starter. I contend that wear and tear is greater if you are constantly turning your engine off then back on.

xpeteyjtx · 09-16-2007, 09:08 AM

Yea, wear and tear is greater. But... the wear and tear might be minuscule since the engine is already warm and well lubed (in comparison to a cold start). If you want the engine to last 150,000 miles, my guess is that shutting it off/turning it on at a red light won't make a difference. But by 250,000 miles, it may start to consume some oil. Obviously, I'm making these numbers up, but you get what I'm saying.

If you do shut it off/turn it on, the starter is being worked more. It would be interesting if Toyota released cycle ratings on their starters. That could give us an idea of how long they would last.

That being said, I personally don't shut the engine off. I don't idle too long at red lights since they seem to change quickly, so it's not really worth it to me.

If someone was up for it, they could do a little experiment with UOAs (used oil analysis). They could do a few samples with the shutting the engine off technique and then do a few with leaving it on. Obviously, constants such as oil brand/weight and change interval must be kept constant, along with driving style. Also, it would be best if the engine had more than 30,000 miles, so that the numbers shown on the UOAs are normalized

voodoo22 · 09-17-2007, 09:39 AM

Thanks for the thoughts. Hopefully someone with a scanguage on an auto can test this one day.

I personally don't believe shifting to N at a stop can make much of a difference, because Toyota knows 99.9% of people won't do this and I'm sure they taken measures appropriate to that knowledge. I just don't want to do it, if it's causing more problems than good.

I never coast in N, when I am coasting in heavy traffic or approaching a red light, I will shift from D to 3 if I'm going under 80 km/h to try and save the brakes and improve the chances of benefitting from DFCO.

I also shut off the car when I'm at a long light and I do pay attention to the other lights so I don't inconvenience all the IMPORTANT people who have to tailgate and don't have time to use signals while they speed up to the next red light or slow spot of traffic

So far I've been doing very well on gas, but the cold weather is coming and I can feel the FE slipping away!!

09-15-2007, 07:32 PM	#1
BailOut Steals terrorist's lunch View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris Liftback Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Reno, Nevada, USA Posts: 1,299	Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it isn't so. Please think twice and ensure you are knowledgeable on the subject at hand before the next time you give advice. __________________ - Brian Share the Road I often carry 2 carpool passengers and mountain bikes or snowboards/skis over a 4,500 foot elevation difference. Click the graphic above to see my detailed mileage logs.

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09-15-2007, 08:40 PM	#2
alhope34 Spool'd View User's Garage Drives: 07 yaris, 16 gen coupe rspec Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 161	I never change to N at a light. Like others have said, it is not necessary to do so. And turning off the engine at a light is just silly... It is really annoying to be stuck behind someone standing there trying to crank their car over and get it in gear properly. I don't know what the laws are like in other places, but in Ontario that is considered "standing" which on just about all main roads is illegal, ESPECIALLY in the left lanes. I have seen cops pull over people who turn off their engines at red lights and I have heard that the tickets can be more than $100 depending on how annoyed the cop is.

09-16-2007, 09:08 AM	#6
xpeteyjtx Drives: 07 BB Yaris Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 54	Yea, wear and tear is greater. But... the wear and tear might be minuscule since the engine is already warm and well lubed (in comparison to a cold start). If you want the engine to last 150,000 miles, my guess is that shutting it off/turning it on at a red light won't make a difference. But by 250,000 miles, it may start to consume some oil. Obviously, I'm making these numbers up, but you get what I'm saying. If you do shut it off/turn it on, the starter is being worked more. It would be interesting if Toyota released cycle ratings on their starters. That could give us an idea of how long they would last. That being said, I personally don't shut the engine off. I don't idle too long at red lights since they seem to change quickly, so it's not really worth it to me. If someone was up for it, they could do a little experiment with UOAs (used oil analysis). They could do a few samples with the shutting the engine off technique and then do a few with leaving it on. Obviously, constants such as oil brand/weight and change interval must be kept constant, along with driving style. Also, it would be best if the engine had more than 30,000 miles, so that the numbers shown on the UOAs are normalized

09-17-2007, 09:39 AM	#7
voodoo22 Drives: Yaris Sedan (auto) Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 545	Thanks for the thoughts. Hopefully someone with a scanguage on an auto can test this one day. I personally don't believe shifting to N at a stop can make much of a difference, because Toyota knows 99.9% of people won't do this and I'm sure they taken measures appropriate to that knowledge. I just don't want to do it, if it's causing more problems than good. I never coast in N, when I am coasting in heavy traffic or approaching a red light, I will shift from D to 3 if I'm going under 80 km/h to try and save the brakes and improve the chances of benefitting from DFCO. I also shut off the car when I'm at a long light and I do pay attention to the other lights so I don't inconvenience all the IMPORTANT people who have to tailgate and don't have time to use signals while they speed up to the next red light or slow spot of traffic So far I've been doing very well on gas, but the cold weather is coming and I can feel the FE slipping away!!