Aveo = GM = Followers not leaders

[thebarber]

Originally Posted by Thirty-Nine

Aveos are inexpensive cars with warranty. Some people (and no, I'm not talking about thebarber), also see the "bowtie" and automatically think "American." Yes, the profits do go to Chevrolet. Keep in mind GM owns 50% of Daewoo.

The Aveo at least puts GM in the small car game. A leader? Nope. However, Chevy sells a decent amount of the little Aveo.

at least GM is tryin....*cough*chrysler*cough*

[bobby]

GM mostly sells the Aveo to rental fleets. Employee discounts aside, I think most people who plunk down hard-earned moolah on an Aveo are a pretty unsophisticated (automotively, speaking) bunch. Think about it...you are spending your money on a car which does not handle well, has no power, gets (at best) mediocre gas mileage, has done poorly in crash tests, has LOUSY resale value, and people giggle about you behind your back. (Could anybody read the reviews on the Aveo, and do a lil' online research and STILL decide to buy an Aveo? Really?) Worse yet, if you finance the car you can add INTEREST charges to the total cost of the car which has little value after you've finished paying off the loan!

The Aveo is certainly an investment! A bad one.

I'd advise somebody to buy a basic Yaris or even an Accent before I'd ever advise somebody to buy an Aveo.

[tuckevalastin]

A lot more than a few....

[tuckevalastin]

as I said, that isn't a Yaris owner... to everyone else its just a cheap car

[mimelio]

Daewoo Lanos renamed and restyled...That is all the Chevrolet Aveo is.

[Thirty-Nine]

Originally Posted by mimelio

Daewoo Lanos renamed and restyled...That is all the Chevrolet Aveo is.

No, Daewoo Kalos (which we didn't get in the U.S.).

And by the way, what's with the "poor crash test ratings" people keep talking about?

The 2007 Aveo 5 got a five-star frontal crash rating (driver and passenger) and a four-star rating for side-impact crashes. (See here)

It also received and "Average" from the IIHS (www.iihs.org) for frontal offset crash.

So, it looks like one thing the Aveo does have going for it is good crash test ratings.

[TLyttle]

I'm sure that there is no point in trying to debate Gene W. here regarding either unions or health care; clearly his experiences supersede mine, regardless of what mine may be. Suffice to day that as a long-time Steelworker, the only real difficulties I had with the shops I worked in had to do with Management who would not listen to the workers in the shop. During my career (retired now) I was able to tell how long a company would last simply be watching Management's attitudes, union or non-union. Normally, well-run companies did not require unions.

I, too, have seen the US medical system, and indeed the experience of dialysis, as described, sounds barbaric, yet I have heard of no such barbarism here in Canada. I worked with handicapped children in a Government facility, and the concentration was on the health and progress of the children, rather than budgets, managerial paperwork, or (!) profits. There is NO PLACE for profit in a medical system; making money off the disadvantaged is a blasphemy of the worst type IMHO.

I did meet a vet in the US who had a trunkful of medical equipment that he had to buy, then take to the hospital so that he wouldn't have to buy the stuff again from his pension money. Another blasphemy in my mind.

I saw my first Japanese-built car in 1962 or so, at an auto show. I knew right then that the US auto industry was in trouble, not because the car was inexpensive, or even offered good performance. The workmanship was superb, the innovations outstanding; better than anything out there on the floor, American or European. In my opinion, very little has changed since then, and all the anecdotes here on the Yaris site kinda prove that.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

I'm sure that there is no point in trying to debate Gene W. here regarding either unions or health care; clearly his experiences supersede mine, regardless of what mine may be.

One of the things I'm really good at is sarcasm. Want to play?

Originally Posted by TLyttle

Suffice to day that as a long-time Steelworker, the only real difficulties I had with the shops I worked in had to do with Management who would not listen to the workers in the shop. During my career (retired now) I was able to tell how long a company would last simply be watching Management's attitudes, union or non-union. Normally, well-run companies did not require unions.

Guess so.

Originally Posted by TLyttle

I, too, have seen the US medical system, and indeed the experience of dialysis, as described, sounds barbaric, yet I have heard of no such barbarism here in Canada.

The second highest per capita casualties from SARS occurred in Canada. The Government packed 'em in Wards like sardines, where they died in larger numbers than anywhere else except China.

Canada also has a heavy budget deficit due to their "health care".

The high budget deficit occurs in spite of a system which is not infested with money hungry attorneys who sue people right and left, an FDA which makes risk aversion its highest goal and I imagine that the Canadian public doesn't seem to think it has a constitutional right to abuse their bodies and then get them "repaired" with cost being no option.

Originally Posted by TLyttle

I worked with handicapped children in a Government facility, and the concentration was on the health and progress of the children, rather than budgets, managerial paperwork, or (!) profits.

I worked in a "not for profit" dialysis facility in the US for three years. Instead of being rated upon how effective we were the "management" rated us upon how the politically selected hack who "managed" the place felt about us. One day I was hauled into the office because one of her pets shoved me out of the way to do something and I got upset.

She said to me, "Well, reality is perception".

This same paragon of logic fired one of my colleagues for reporting that an RN was lighting candles in her office. When a Government agency reacted she said, "Yeah, I fired him for being a whistleblower". In the US this is illegal, so she had to offer my former colleague his job back. All he wanted was to have his termination retracted, which they did.

I don't want to hear about the glories of non-profit organizations. Been there, done that, did not get a t-shirt.

Originally Posted by TLyttle

I saw my first Japanese-built car in 1962 or so, at an auto show. I knew right then that the US auto industry was in trouble, not because the car was inexpensive, or even offered good performance. The workmanship was superb, the innovations outstanding; better than anything out there on the floor, American or European. In my opinion, very little has changed since then, and all the anecdotes here on the Yaris site kinda prove that.

Anyone who has read about the story of Preston Tucker realizes that US industry has been in trouble since the 1950s.

Gene

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

There is NO PLACE for profit in a medical system

Patent non-sense. If there is no profit there is no interest. If there is no interest there is no incentive to invest and furnish capital.

In which case you're at the mercy of bureaucrats, saints and do-gooders to get the money you need to buy supplies, train and weather the slow times.

Bureaucrats are in it for their own security and careers. There are damn few saints around these days. Do-gooders have this distressing tendency to stick to you and never go away - they end up costing you more than a business person, who makes their profit and then leaves you.

Originally Posted by TLyttle

making money off the disadvantaged is a blasphemy of the worst type IMHO.

Blasphemy is a religious term. Profit is good. Taking advantage of people is not good. You can do the first without doing the second, it's being done every day all over the world.

I might add, and I think this is important, that giving people things that they ought to get for themselves, is not helping them. You weaken them, make them dependent upon you, and in doing so you impoverish them. Worst of all, you empower "do-gooders" who then lay claim to the wealth of others and abuse their power because they are full of their own goodness.

We've seen what happens when do-gooders run things. Behind every evil person who slaughtered millions of people in the 20th century was a set of good intentions. The communists wanted to end the exploitation of man by man. The fascists wanted to regain national glory and give people a sense of their own worth. Both laid waste to nations, murdered millions of people and risked destroying the whole human race.

Give me someone who wants to make a profit. They're honest and their aims are limited to their own interests. Provided that they do not hijack the State they're far more honorable than any do-gooder.

Gene

[TLyttle]

My, you ARE a curmudgeon, ain't ya? No point in being your straw man here, Gene, I learned my values, you learned yours...

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

My, you ARE a curmudgeon, ain't ya? No point in being your straw man here,

I wasn't the one who called taking a profit in medical services "Blasphemy". Perhaps you need to take a step back and examine why such incendiary language was called for here?

Originally Posted by TLyttle

I learned my values, you learned yours...

The limits of relativism end when someone points a gun at someone else. Whether this is done as a private sector transaction or under the color of Law is a germane point.

Gene

[bobby]

The Aveo is junky.