WHY do I want one so bad?

[MauiDan]

Hi Tom...Dan here...I just bought our 2nd Yaris Auto (no power) sedan in under 2 years. The first was an 07 Flint Mica- love the car and color..last week I bought an 09 (wife is getting the 07 and her old Taurus going to our son).
The 09 is Silver Streak Mica althoiugh another Flint Mica woulda been fine.

I'm 53. I thought this may help you.

I have never bought a car without the dealer going into holdback on it.

That said I have always bought either at the end of a model year or end of a month. I bought the 09 on 3-31-09. Better bargaining position in my humble opinion.

Now back to dealer holdback. The dealer does have more room on your cobalt because in effect if he is selling you the new yaris AT invoice (and ask to see the invoice of course) he still has approx. $275.00 which was the dealer holdback on my 09 auto sedan (with no power just conv. pkg,all weather and mats).

So if he "begs" the trade in guy to go to 8750 on your cobalt then tell him you are going to wait until May...go in on the 29th or 30th of April and tell him you will buy if he goes 8750 on the trade AND goes 200.00 into the Holdback. Or just give you 8950 for the trade and sell the car to me AT invoice.

Hope that helps Tom.

Both times I was under invoice on the Yarii because I refused to buy at or over invoice and played 3 dealers (Bermuda Triangle) against each other in a 45 mile radius. It always works for me here in upstate NY.

Good Luck.

-Dan

[tomato]

Originally Posted by MauiDan

I have never bought a car without the dealer going into holdback on it...

... The dealer does have more room on your cobalt because in effect if he is selling you the new yaris AT invoice (and ask to see the invoice of course) he still has approx. $275.00 which was the dealer holdback on my 09 auto sedan (with no power just conv. pkg,all weather and mats).

What is "dealer holdback" and also what EXACTLY is invoice and how much negotiating room is there around that?

Thanks

[YarisOwnersDad]

Originally Posted by tomato

What is "dealer holdback" and also what EXACTLY is invoice and how much negotiating room is there around that?

Thanks

Mater:

Hold back is what the dealers make when they sell a car at invoice price. I believe it is normally three percent of the invoice price. Invoice price is what dealers pay the factory for the car, but they get three percent back.


MSRP is "Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price," and that is what you see on the window sticker. "Sticker price," in other words. The difference between sticker price and invoice price is profit for the dealer.

A good way to shop for cars is to make the dealer show you the invoice and tell him what you are willing to pay in relation to invoice price. The dealers like for us to use MSRP as the baseline, but savvy car buyers work off of invoice price.

Tomster

[tomato]

Originally Posted by YarisOwnersDad

Mater:

Hold back is what the dealers make when they sell a car at invoice price. I believe it is normally three percent of the invoice price. Invoice price is what dealers pay the factory for the car, but they get three percent back.


MSRP is "Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price," and that is what you see on the window sticker. "Sticker price," in other words. The difference between sticker price and invoice price is profit for the dealer.

A good way to shop for cars is to make the dealer show you the invoice and tell him what you are willing to pay in relation to invoice price. The dealers like for us to use MSRP as the baseline, but savvy car buyers work off of invoice price.

Tomster

Awesome. Thanks, that helps a lot!

Don't laugh but all this talk about trading in had me doing a lot of thinking lately I'm in no hurry, though, but it's a never a bad idea to be ready. You just never know when a good opportunity might present itself!

[YarisOwnersDad]

Originally Posted by tomato

Awesome. Thanks, that helps a lot!

Don't laugh but all this talk about trading in had me doing a lot of thinking lately I'm in no hurry, though, but it's a never a bad idea to be ready. You just never know when a good opportunity might present itself!

Since cars are equipped differently, it is hard to know what kind of deals people are getting, unless they get a car equipped just like the one you want to buy. Someone can tell you what he paid for his car, but if he had fewer options than you want, his price is not directly comparable with yours. The same would be true if he were getting more options.

The beauty of working with invoice price is that you can compare deals on cars that do not necessarily have the same options. Find out what people are paying in relation to invoice for the type of car you want, and then start calling dealers asking them how much in relation to invoice they are willing to sell your type of car for. Obviously, invoice is higher on a car with more options and is less on cars with fewer options, but for comparing deals, finding out how much over or under invoice the dealer is willing to sell for will give you a good idea of how good the deal is.

Tom

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[tomato]

Originally Posted by YarisOwnersDad

Since cars are equipped differently, it is hard to know what kind of deals people are getting, unless they get a car equipped just like the one you want to buy. Someone can tell you what he paid for his car, but if he had fewer options than you want, his price is not directly comparable with yours. The same would be true if he were getting more options.

The beauty of working with invoice price is that you can compare deals on cars that do not necessarily have the same options. Find out what people are paying in relation to invoice for the type of car you want, and then start calling dealers asking them how much in relation to invoice they are willing to sell your type of car for. Obviously, invoice is higher on a car with more options and is less on cars with fewer options, but for comparing deals, finding out how much over or under invoice the dealer is willing to sell for will give you a good idea of how good the deal is.

Tom

I understand that part. Kind of like buying a computer directly from the manufacturer's website and configuring the options you like, and seeing the price change depending on what you want. No problem.

The part that confuses me a bit more is all the game playing at the dealership, the back-and-forth between the sales guy and the guy in the back office, and all this other stuff, the last minute paperwork, add-ons, etc.. I didn't know you could ask to see the invoice, so thanks for that.

BTW, would the invoice price be the same thing as the price quoted on Toyota manufacturer's website when you configure your vehicle yourself?

Sorry if these questions seem real basic but always bought my cars used from private parties before I got this Yaris, and getting a car from a dealership (even a used car) is a bit of a headache if you're not used to the process.

PS. And these questions help the wanna-be Yaris owners out there still lurking in the forum

[YarisOwnersDad]

Originally Posted by tomato

I understand that part. Kind of like buying a computer directly from the manufacturer's website and configuring the options you like, and seeing the price change depending on what you want. No problem.

The part that confuses me a bit more is all the game playing at the dealership, the back-and-forth between the sales guy and the guy in the back office, and all this other stuff, the last minute paperwork, add-ons, etc.. I didn't know you could ask to see the invoice, so thanks for that.

BTW, would the invoice price be the same thing as the price quoted on Toyota manufacturer's website when you configure your vehicle yourself?

Sorry if these questions seem real basic but always bought my cars used from private parties before I got this Yaris, and getting a car from a dealership (even a used car) is a bit of a headache if you're not used to the process.

PS. And these questions help the wanna-be Yaris owners out there still lurking in the forum

No, absolutely not! They would give you MSRP, or "sticker price." In the "old days," the customer never saw the invoice, and it would have been considered "rude" to ask to see it. I guess it was only after websites like Edmunds.com started posting invoice prices that it became common practice for customers to know how much in relation to invoice they were paying for their cars.

Don't be embarrassed about asking questions, Mater. No one is going to make fun of you for it. How else are you going to learn?

Tom

[YarisOwnersDad]

Originally Posted by MauiDan

Hi Tom...Dan here...I just bought our 2nd Yaris Auto (no power) sedan in under 2 years. The first was an 07 Flint Mica- love the car and color..last week I bought an 09 (wife is getting the 07 and her old Taurus going to our son).
The 09 is Silver Streak Mica althoiugh another Flint Mica woulda been fine.

I'm 53. I thought this may help you.

I have never bought a car without the dealer going into holdback on it.

That said I have always bought either at the end of a model year or end of a month. I bought the 09 on 3-31-09. Better bargaining position in my humble opinion.

Now back to dealer holdback. The dealer does have more room on your cobalt because in effect if he is selling you the new yaris AT invoice (and ask to see the invoice of course) he still has approx. $275.00 which was the dealer holdback on my 09 auto sedan (with no power just conv. pkg,all weather and mats).

So if he "begs" the trade in guy to go to 8750 on your cobalt then tell him you are going to wait until May...go in on the 29th or 30th of April and tell him you will buy if he goes 8750 on the trade AND goes 200.00 into the Holdback. Or just give you 8950 for the trade and sell the car to me AT invoice.

Hope that helps Tom.

Both times I was under invoice on the Yarii because I refused to buy at or over invoice and played 3 dealers (Bermuda Triangle) against each other in a 45 mile radius. It always works for me here in upstate NY.

Good Luck.

-Dan

Dan:

Thanks for the nice long post. I appreciate your taking the time to do that for me.

You know, I would not lose sleep if I thought that maybe I had left a couple hundred bucks on the table after agreeing to a deal. I don't want to be ripped off, but allowing the dealer to make a couple hundred bucks above his absolute minimum profit margin doesn't bother me all that much, ESCPECIALLY if I am going to be going to that dealership for service after the sale.

I feel that I am ALWAYS treated better in the service departments of the dealerships where the cars were bought. Warranty work has to be done by any dealer, I know, but the dealership service departments where I have bought my cars seem to work with me better on scheduling, and they have also done a lot of things to save me money.

The Service Manager and the Parts Manager have a lot of discretion on what they can charge the customer, and that can be worth much more in the long run than the $200 or $300 one might have saved on the trade by going somewhere else.

Maybe one of these days I will get that Yaris!

Thanks again.

Tom