2016 US FE standards!

[supmet]

Originally Posted by daf62757

This used to be a free country.

I grew up mostly in northern california. Lots of trees, not a lot of pollution. Well I went to visit my dad in southern california one summer, not far from LA. I went out for a bike ride the first day I got there - I rode my bike every day in northern california.

I had the worst chest pains I had ever experienced in my life. The smog people in LA deal with every day had crippled me. Do you have freedom to harm my lungs? If your answer is yes, can I attack your lungs with a baseball bat? What's the difference?

Not only are you harming people now, but for years to come..

Its funny how all the people crying about losing their freedom now were the same people who were so eager to give up half of their civil liberties(patriot act).

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by supmet

I grew up mostly in northern california. Lots of trees, not a lot of pollution. Well I went to visit my dad in southern california one summer, not far from LA. I went out for a bike ride the first day I got there - I rode my bike every day in northern california.

I had the worst chest pains I had ever experienced in my life. The smog people in LA deal with every day had crippled me. Do you have freedom to harm my lungs? If your answer is yes, can I attack your lungs with a baseball bat? What's the difference?

Not only are you harming people now, but for years to come..

Its funny how all the people crying about losing their freedom now were the same people who were so eager to give up half of their civil liberties(patriot act).

What liberties were given up for the Patriot Act? Maybe you have been tuned into MSNBC too long? Or maybe your are a terrorist and the right to plan terrorist acts was, in your opinion a right!

[ka0sx]

Originally Posted by daf62757

What liberties were given up for the Patriot Act? Maybe you have been tuned into MSNBC too long? Or maybe your are a terrorist and the right to plan terrorist acts was, in your opinion a right!

why are you still wasting precious oxygen?

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by ka0sx

why are you still wasting precious oxygen?

Why did your mother not practice good birth control?

[supmet]

Originally Posted by GeneW

a bunch of crap to make people think he knows what he's talking about

Ozone, which is the major component of smog, is a strong respiratory irritant and oxidant. Ozone levels tend to be highest in the summer and in the late morning and early afternoon. Short-term exposures can produce dyspnea, chest pain, and airways reactivity. Children who regularly participate in outdoor sports during days on which ozone pollution is high are more likely to develop asthma. Long-term exposure to ozone produces a small, permanent decrease in lung function.

http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec05/ch057/ch057b.html

go away now

edit: can't believe I'm coming back to argue with someone who thinks pollution doesn't hurt the lungs, but

http://www.lungusa.org/site/c.dvLUK9...2/Rankings.htm

LA is #1 for short term and year round particulates..

also, people who live in LA don't usually have chest pain either, but coming from very low pollution to heavy will cause chest pain. Its just like smoking cigarettes. Someone who has smoked for years doesn't even feel it going down. A first time smoker will cough out a lung.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by supmet

Ozone, which is the major component of smog, is a strong respiratory irritant and oxidant. Ozone levels tend to be highest in the summer and in the late morning and early afternoon. Short-term exposures can produce dyspnea, chest pain, and airways reactivity. Children who regularly participate in outdoor sports during days on which ozone pollution is high are more likely to develop asthma. Long-term exposure to ozone produces a small, permanent decrease in lung function.

http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec05/ch057/ch057b.html

Do you remember the odor? Ozone has a smell akin to the odor produced by lightning, which is a large generator of the gas.

Here's what an online MSDS has to say about Ozone....

"Causes dryness of the mouth, coughing, and irritates the nose, throat, and chest. May cause difficulty in breathing, headache, and fatigue. The characteristic sharp, irritating odor is readily detectable at low concentrations (0.01 to 0.05 ppm).

OSHA PEL limits follow...

Exposure Guidelines:
OSHA PEL: 0.10-ppm PEL/TLV

If you read this carefully you'll note that you can smell Ozone at OSHA PEL levels... Did you in fact smell ozone?

Here's the "money shot"....

"Ozone is an unstable gas which, at normal temperatures, decomposes to diatomic oxygen."

http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/ozone_msds.htm


This is from a European Site...

"Toxicity data

IHL-HMN TCLO thought to be near 1 ppm/2h.
IHL-CAT LC50 34500 ppb/3h
IHL-GPG LC50 24800 ppb/3h
IHL-HAM LC50 10500 ppb/4h
IHL-HMN LCLO 50 ppm/30m

LC50 lethal concentration 50 percent kill
LCLo lowest published lethal concentration
LD50 lethal dose 50 percent kill
LDlo lowest published lethal dose

http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/OZ/ozone.html

The long and short of it is that I don't think you had problems with Ozone. If you had problems they weren't large enough to warrant a trip to the Hospital, where a competent person would have evaluated you for the CAUSE of your complaints (and your suppositions of same decades later).

Originally Posted by supmet

go away now

edit: can't believe I'm coming back to argue with someone who thinks pollution doesn't hurt the lungs, but

http://www.lungusa.org/site/c.dvLUK9...2/Rankings.htm

LA is #1 for short term and year round particulates..

also, people who live in LA don't usually have chest pain either, but coming from very low pollution to heavy will cause chest pain. Its just like smoking cigarettes. Someone who has smoked for years doesn't even feel it going down. A first time smoker will cough out a lung.

I'll take your little snit as confirmation that nobody took you to the ER. Otherwise you'd have furnished proof of respiratory distress. You might have had reaction to pollen, fungi, food, or some other environmental assault. You just THINK you were affected and use this supposition as "justification" to launch onto someone who doesn't share your joy at our Almighty Government saving us from industry.

Look, do your homework. Where I come from I deal with facts and the facts do not necessarily support your claims of past injuries or support your current joys at Our Masters in DC telling us what we're gonna be driving.

Gene

[supmet]

Originally Posted by GeneW

The long and short of it is that I don't think you had problems with Ozone.

Neither do I - want a cookie?

I just googled pollution chest pain to shut you up and that merck site was the first thing that popped up.

I don't care if you think pollution causes chest pain - you have proven time and time again you will think what you want to think, and no amount of reasoning or proof will change that. It is a simple fact, and I'm not going to waste any more of my time arguing this point.