The open political discussion thread. Read the first post!

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by tomato

You guys ought to move that thread to the off topic discussion, I think.

Let's do so, shall we?

Originally Posted by tomato

Health care: do you really like the idea that millions of Americans everywhere can't afford health insurance right now? Some can, but insurances will turn them down based on pre-existing conditions. What are they supposed to do? Here in California, a simple doctor's visit (consult, 15 minutes at MOST) is $184. That's not some fancy visit in some fancy place, believe me.

Welcome to California, land of high taxes, irrational business regulations, high local and state income taxes, and lots of "Cost Shifting" from Illegals (who work cheap labor for farmers, nannies and garderners for the wealthy, etc.).

California has too much government now... since when is pouring gasoline on a fire the answer to putting out a fire?

Originally Posted by tomato

Is it fair that people who have worked all their lives and saved every penny should go bankrupt when someone gets, let's say cancer? IDK, something sure needs to be done. I don't trust the government anymore than the next guy, but a little bit of regulation to make sure prices don't skyrocket might be a good idea.

Price caps cause shortages... guess you were too young to remember the Gasoline Lines of the 1970s? I remember 'em real well, caused by price caps on gasoline prices. Once the prices were allowed to rise the gas lines vanished.

The same thing happens today in Georgia with "anti-gouging" laws. So instead of paying in cash you pay in time either waiting in line for gasoline or searching out stations which are still selling it. No free lunches.

Originally Posted by tomato

Look at the price of prescription drugs for instance, I mean that is completely out of hand. Many of these drugs (which Seniors require) are long out of R&D, and shouldn't be priced that high. The tax payer is footing the bill

When Vioxx was announced to "cause" angina and heart attack Merch had to 'set aside" $6,800,000,000 for settlements. The FDA trials for Vioxx spanned 18 months, some people were using Vioxx for far longer.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4269301.shtml

So, patients are using Vioxx longer than the FDA trials but it's Merck's fault? Guess so... and you wonder why drugs are so expensive!!

Here's a story of the sudden disappearance of vaccine makers in the US - courtesy of President Clinton.

The panel of doctors and economists issuing a report on vaccines last week identified as a fundamental cause of the problem the fact that the government purchases 55 percent of the childhood vaccine market at forced discount prices. The result has been "declining financial incentives to develop and produce vaccines."

The root of this government role goes back to August 1993, when Congress passed Clinton's Vaccines for Children program. The plan, promoted by the Children's Defense Fund, was to use federal power to ensure universal immunization. So the government agreed to purchase a third of the national vaccine supply (the President and Mrs. Clinton had pushed for 100 percent) at a forced discount of half price, then distribute it to doctors to deliver to the poor and the un- and under-insured. As a result:

* Where 30 years ago, 25 companies produced vaccines for the U.S. market., today only five remain, and there is only one producer for a number of critical shots.
* Recent years have brought shortages of numerous vaccines, including those for whooping cough, diphtheria and chicken pox.

The Institute panel in effect said that one of Senator Clinton's pet projects is a bust. As Congress considers Medicare legislation that could do similar harm to prescription drug makers, the vaccine tale is a timely alarm, says the Journal.

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=4705

Originally Posted by tomato

Maybe I should just shut up because the health care situation just puts me in a bad mood. Anyway, think about it, even if you voted Republican and hate the very thought of any government involvment.

I don't know the answers either, I just know what Medicare and Medicaid are not doing - controlling the costs of medical procedures. Why is "more of the same' going to fix the problem?

A Republican President and GOP controlled Congress passed the "Senior Drug Prescription Benefit" program by the way. The GOP are simply "me too" Democrats.

Originally Posted by tomato

Health care as it is now in the US is no care at all for the majority of people. It is a disgrace, if you ask me.

The real disgrace to me is that the American people are allowing Congress to borrow money to keep us "in the style to which we are accustomed" from China and Japan, letting us live far beyond our means, while at the same time destroying our ability to manufacture through "Cap 'n Trade" and a whole panoply of control freak horseshit.

Meanwhile they kiss the butts of companies like Toyota, begging them to set up shop in the US.

We're capable of doing Toyota grade work in the US, if we weren't held back by our own sense of entitlement, "class struggle" and insane laws.

This comes to bear on "Health Care" - a nation which pisses away the enthusiasm of the productive classes, and stifles achievement because it's "unfair" must pay the price in terms of poverty.

Japan is half the size of the US in population and has the land mass of California. It's not just MITI and Toyota's special status with their government that makes them to dominant car maker today. It's not Japanese "health care", as Toyota profitably makes cars in the US too.

Toyota listens to the customer. If our Government would keep its meddlesome and vote buying hands out of our businesses we too could compete. There would be excess wealth for more medical services, not free health care and not "equal access" but enough for most folks to buy it affordably.

Gene