Warning - Broken control arm bolt!

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by CTScott

Even after going through the nightmare of replacing the broken one, I really don't blame this on Toyota as much as I do on the people who choose the Winter chemicals to use on our roads.

The difference in corrosion between the 2007 100K+ mile California Yaris that I recently parted out and this 2007 70K mile Ohio Yaris is incredible.

Recently I was chatting with a guy who works for the CT highway department and he was telling me about how bad the trucks that spray the road chemicals disintegrate in a single season, and it is just plain scary.

Wow. I wonder what the California Department of Transportation uses for 'winter road treatment' ? Unlike CT, OH, etc., relatively few well traveled roads in densely populated areas that would need any Winter treatment. I would think the main concern would be the Interstate Highways (plus U.S. 50) where traffic has to go over a good size mountain range/pass to get to another state.

[nookandcrannycar]

Currently on the 'story wheel' on the Yahoo home page ----- 2014 Audi R8 Convertible and a fleet of 1984 Audi 4000 Quatros having fun on 600 acres --- in the snow. I wonder what the fleet of '84s look like underneath?????


http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoram...173509726.html

[Viperoni]

I posted in one of these control arm bolt threads, soon after I got my Echo, and called out an OP on them. Now I've got my tail inbetween my legs. I've had a few bolts snap on me that should not have ever snapped - the worst two being the thermostat housing *studs*.
Basically it's horrendously cheap quality metal.

Anyone else have trouble with bolts snapping due to poor quality metal on their Yaris?

Given my experience with my Echo, and then reading this thread and the TSB's out there for the issue... is coming close to ticking the Yaris off my "next car" list...

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Viperoni

I posted in one of these control arm bolt threads, soon after I got my Echo, and called out an OP on them. Now I've got my tail inbetween my legs. I've had a few bolts snap on me that should not have ever snapped - the worst two being the thermostat housing *studs*.
Basically it's horrendously cheap quality metal.

Anyone else have trouble with bolts snapping due to poor quality metal on their Yaris?

Given my experience with my Echo, and then reading this thread and the TSB's out there for the issue... is coming close to ticking the Yaris off my "next car" list...

I would probably feel differently if I lived in a Winter climate like yours, but I'll probably be willing to give the Prius C a shot after (hopefully) many more miles have elapsed on my Yaris.

[Viperoni]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

I would probably feel differently if I lived in a Winter climate like yours, but I'll probably be willing to give the Prius C a shot after (hopefully) many more miles have elapsed on my Yaris.

Everybody's said that, but this is the only car I've had this "weak bolts" problem with, and I've been through a few cars... and have done a ton of work on them too.

Probably the best example was with my old 92 Nissan NX2000 that I had before my Echo (which I bought in 2010), meaning the NX was 18 years old at the time, I was able to get control arms bolts, header bolts (at the motor and collector), and some others out reasonably well. No snapping, just breaker barring it out. The car had around 180k at the time and was winter driven by the previous owner.

[CTScott]

Originally Posted by Viperoni

Everybody's said that, but this is the only car I've had this "weak bolts" problem with, and I've been through a few cars... and have done a ton of work on them too.

Probably the best example was with my old 92 Nissan NX2000 that I had before my Echo (which I bought in 2010), meaning the NX was 18 years old at the time, I was able to get control arms bolts, header bolts (at the motor and collector), and some others out reasonably well. No snapping, just breaker barring it out. The car had around 180k at the time and was winter driven by the previous owner.

I have seen far more bolt issues as of late as well, but not just with the Yaris. I was helping a buddy of mine change his rear shocks on his relatively new Jeep and we sheared two bolts in the process. I swear that it has nothing to do with the manufacturers cheaping out on bolts, but rather on these new road salts that are being used.

[Viperoni]

Originally Posted by CTScott

I have seen far more bolt issues as of late as well, but not just with the Yaris. I was helping a buddy of mine change his rear shocks on his relatively new Jeep and we sheared two bolts in the process. I swear that it has nothing to do with the manufacturers cheaping out on bolts, but rather on these new road salts that are being used.

Possible... I don't have it anymore, but just before I got my Echo in 2010, my 1992 Nissan NX2000 that was winter driven in Canada, didn't have any issues removing bolts.
One bolt that was memorable was the bolt that bolted the two rear lateral links (control arms) onto the spindle. I needed to use a 2 foot breaker bar and a 4 foot pipe on an impact socket and *REALLY* needed to put my weight into it.. and I'm over 200lbs. There was at least 500ft lbs of torque going into that 1/2" bolt and it survived fine.

Referencing this thread in particular, even though these front LCA bolts aren't even getting much shear load, mainly tension they're still snapping... which really makes me think it's a metal quality issue.
And my thermostat housing stud snapping issue I just had is another example...

[Hershey]

Never had this issue with cars of the past . Would go 250,000+ miles and no bolts for suspension would fail . Struts and other related parts , yes , that's expected . Poor design of the control arm . Who supplies those to Toyota ? Subarus and other manufacturers have the same problem .

[NEexpat]

Back to this again,

Let's say, hypothetically, that there was a Yaris owner out there who was relatively certain that his/her lower control arm bolts were corroding. Based mostly on the four season climate this person lived in complete with salted winter roads.

And that this person is not at all happy with the the "reactive" attitude Toyota and subsequently their dealers are taking with this issue. Not replacing the bolts forthwith rather waiting till the customer complains of a "thunk" noise when going over a bump.

Lets say for instance that this Yaris owner wanted to be a little more "proactive" and he or she wanted to see if they could remove these bolts themselves, and if successful replace them with new bolts. Is there anything these bolts should be "dressed" with? As well as any additional sealing around the bolt hole above on the inside of the control arm.

Asking for a friend.

Cheers

[CTScott]

Originally Posted by NEexpat

Back to this again,

Let's say, hypothetically, that there was a Yaris owner out there who was relatively certain that his/her lower control arm bolts were corroding. Based mostly on the four season climate this person lived in complete with salted winter roads.

And that this person is not at all happy with the the "reactive" attitude Toyota and subsequently their dealers are taking with this issue. Not replacing the bolts forthwith rather waiting till the customer complains of a "thunk" noise when going over a bump.

Lets say for instance that this Yaris owner wanted to be a little more "proactive" and he or she wanted to see if they could remove these bolts themselves, and if successful replace them with new bolts. Is there anything these bolts should be "dressed" with? As well as any additional sealing around the bolt hole above on the inside of the control arm.

Asking for a friend.

Cheers

The good thing is that if they snap while "your friend" is trying to remove them "your friend" can simply (and carefully) drive to the nearest dealership and let them perform the warranty extension service.

If "your friend" gets them out successfully "your friend" will want to seal the seams per the TSB (see the images below). I also recommend coating the bolts with something (either a heavy grease or anti-seize compound).

You can pick up caulk gun tubes of seam sealant at most auto parts stores.


Here is where the TSB shows to seal the seams
Seam Seal 3.jpg

And, here is a picture of the chassis. The red lines show the three seams to seal on each side. With the subframe in place it is very difficult to see these areas, so this picture is of a stripped chassis.
Seam Seal 4.jpg

[NEexpat]

Thanks Scott,

I be sure to ummm pass this information along.

[Hershey]

CT, if one or both of the bushings around the horizontal bolt (s) are bad, could it be a safety concern and still be the source of the crunch/creak with all the new parts ? Parts listed here, http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50701 Maybe we should change our user name to Captain Crunch. .

[CTScott]

Originally Posted by Hershey

CT, if one or both of the bushings around the horizontal bolt (s) are bad, could it be a safety concern and still be the source of the crunch/creak with all the new parts ? Parts listed here, http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50701 Maybe we should change our user name to Captain Crunch. .

The horizontal ones have a simple steel tube bushing around the bolt. That tube is then surrounded with the compliant material (rubber, urethane, or whatever it is). I can't imagine them being bad on a new arm.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Hershey

Maybe we should change our user name to Captain Crunch. .

At least you are able to have a sense of humor about this. What is that old saying....If we didn't laugh, we'd cry?

[NEexpat]

My friend decided to take a crack at changing his bolts a few days ago. He lives in the Northeast and has less than 60k on his car.

Once he got past the trepidation of ever so slowly loosening one then the other, that was it, completely uneventful.

Both expelled a couple of tablespoons of black liquid, I mean black. INK BLACK.

Once removed he was amazed..................................at the LACK of corrosion! Some rust on the threads, but nothing, zero, zippo, nada corrosion of any sort around the shaft or washer or the bolt head. No kidding. Nothing. He thought maybe just clean these up, dress them with anti seize and put them back. Went ahead with the new ones.

Someone mentioned here the hardest part of this was getting the wrench to click at 118 while lying on your back/side, no kidding! That and attempting it in the first place.

I believe he is now going to change them every 2 years, max.

Thankful that there were no issues, he understands how fortunate he was given some of the stories and experiences shared here.

Cheers.

[Hershey]

No new arm(s) were installed . Still the original with 72,000+ miles . Could the surrounding material inside the steel bushing deteriorate from salt , road conditions ( pot holes , etc. ) and other reasons ?

[CTScott]

Originally Posted by Hershey

No new arm(s) were installed . Still the original with 72,000+ miles . Could the surrounding material inside the steel bushing deteriorate from salt , road conditions ( pot holes , etc. ) and other reasons ?

They could potentially, but on the one where I had disintegrated vertical bolts, the horizontal ones were fine. When they dropped your subframe they would have had to remove the control arms to do so, so if they were in bad shape they should have noticed.

[Hershey]

Or maybe not . Never was mentioned .