Warning - Broken control arm bolt!

[Hershey]

Called Toyota and they gave a reference number for when brought in . There's creaking from the rear end as well ( culprit ? ) . Have it in stereo at times . Anyway , here are the bolts taken yesterday ( right ones I hope ) . Look o.k. ? Last , how does CT get his undercarriage so clean ?

[CTScott]

Originally Posted by Hershey

Called Toyota and they gave a reference number for when brought in . There's creaking from the rear end as well ( culprit ? ) . Have it in stereo at times . Anyway , here are the bolts taken yesterday ( right ones I hope ) . Look o.k. ? Last , how does CT get his undercarriage so clean ?

I would really like to see one of the bolts that has failed on someone's car.

With the size of the bolts I don't believe that they can rust deep enough to weaken enough to fail. I have a funny feeling that the bolts in question have an issue where they were made either too soft or too brittle.

For the rear creaking, the springs or rear brakes are usually the culprit of that one. My 09 was doing it and I hit the perches with a light coat of silicone oil and it went away.

Don't you wax the bottom of your car too?

[Hershey]

" I would really like to see one of the bolts that has failed on someone's car. "

Would be nice to see a picture of the snaaped off bolt . Very slim chance .

" With the size of the bolts I don't believe that they can rust deep enough to weaken enough to fail. I have a funny feeling that the bolts in question have an issue where they were made either too soft or too brittle. "

Makes sense .

" For the rear creaking, the springs or rear brakes are usually the culprit of that one. My 09 was doing it and I hit the perches with a light coat of silicone oil and it went away. "

Thanks .

" Don't you wax the bottom of your car too? "

No . Don't wax the cars at all . A lift sure would be helpful . Maybe Santa will drop one off .

[Don777]

here's what I have re bolt corrosion images

[kaz777]

Originally Posted by Hershey

" I would really like to see one of the bolts that has failed on someone's car. "

Would be nice to see a picture of the snaaped off bolt . Very slim chance .

" With the size of the bolts I don't believe that they can rust deep enough to weaken enough to fail. I have a funny feeling that the bolts in question have an issue where they were made either too soft or too brittle. "

Dont know if anyone showed one (snapped off bolt head), but here it is on our car, Right side (passenger). Made the noise took it to our mechanic who showed it to us and told us to go to toyota with the letter. We are hoping they cover it with the letter today. They sched it a 1pm (half day off work) hope it takes the hour and half they claim in letter???
Our local mechanic noticed the a/c drains right onto it. hmm? I live NE usa. This car has 50k on it 08 sedan yaris. The other side has a rusted regular looking bolt on the same bar. Not sure it they cover it. I bet they wont pull the same one on other side, I fear the head wont rust but the bolt will like mongoose pic above. Incidentally there seems to be a fair amt of rust on the bar near bolts on drivers side too, guess they wont cover it tho".

EDITED TO SAY: today my car is at a toyota dealer, they are giving us a loaner saying the car is not safe. They cov'd it in full both bolts and even fixed the seat adjuster recall, but the seat is harder to work now, must do it two handed on each side of front bottom of it. OH and the did a realignment since it got complicated getting the sheared off bolt out. Im very grateful had a great toyota dealer experience :) Ive had much worse at other types of dealers in the past.

[CTScott]

I ran into my old ones today and did a comparison with a set of new ones (I always keep some on hand in case someone comes by that hasn't had them replaced yet).

Bolts - Old New.jpg

My old ones, which had about 25,000 miles and 4 Winters on them just had light surface rust on the threads and very light surface rust at the base of the head. The interesting thing that I did notice is different markings on the head. In theory, this would mean a different bolt strength class, but according to the service manual, for a bolt with an included washer, either one or two marks means that the bolt is a class 6T bolt.

At least, if nothing more, the changed markings allow one to easily tell if they have new ones (old left, new right):

Bolts - Grade.jpg

[edmscan]

I would think that it would be in very extreme cases that those bolts would break. Rust .. yes maybe but I think that it would take some bad conditions to make them fail. But what do I know.

I will maybe have the Toyota dealer check on mine the next time I am there, next spring for my oil change.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by CTScott

I ran into my old ones today and did a comparison with a set of new ones (I always keep some on hand in case someone comes by that hasn't had them replaced yet).

Attachment 49381

My old ones, which had about 25,000 miles and 4 Winters on them just had light surface rust on the threads and very light surface rust at the base of the head. The interesting thing that I did notice is different markings on the head. In theory, this would mean a different bolt strength class, but according to the service manual, for a bolt with an included washer, either one or two marks means that the bolt is a class 6T bolt.

At least, if nothing more, the changed markings allow one to easily tell if they have new ones (old left, new right):

Attachment 49382

Can I have them? They look OK to me?

Seems like everybody could R&R these bolts themselves, check them out, and replace them if need be.

If a quart of water comes out when you remove it, yeah, thats something that should be on the yearly to do list.

[CTScott]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Can I have them? They look OK to me?

Seems like everybody could R&R these bolts themselves, check them out, and replace them if need be.

If a quart of water comes out when you remove it, yeah, thats something that should be on the yearly to do list.

Before they fail they are very easy to replace and they are not torqued to where to need anything more than a 18" breaker bar or a normal ratchet with a piece of pipe as an extension.

The TSB calls for some seam sealing, but where it shows it, it is all down hill of where those bolts thread into. At only $3 each, I will keep some extras around and will pop them out and take a peek once or twice a year (when switching between Winter and Summer rims is my ideal time to do so).

[CoryM]

I had a look at the TSB at work today.

They will replace (with updated parts):
Subframe
Ctrl arms
Bolts

As well as they apply seam sealer which appears to try preventing water from filling up the panel that the ctrl arm bolt goes into. I guess they figure that's where the water gets in from. Job pays 5.5hrs WARRANTY time (regular time will be higher).

For most people the best idea will be to remove/inspect, and replace those bolts as required. Salty areas may want to do a yearly check. Next time I have my car on the lift I will see if there is an easy way to make the water drain out by itself. Might just take a drilled hole, or a little cut with a grinder. I completely covered my bolts with axle grease so they shouldn't rust again, but I guess I should actually fix the problem and not just the symptom.

Cheers.
Cory

[andulong]

I just bought a set of bolts at my local Toyota dealer today. Unfortunately they look just like the old ones and have two marks, or lines on the head. I hope they did not sell me some old ones hoping I would not know the difference. Is there any other way to tell the difference? I am waiting to install them until I am sure they are the upgraded bolts. I am afraid if I go back to Toyota they will not know the difference, if there is one. Thanks.

Originally Posted by CTScott

At least, if nothing more, the changed markings allow one to easily tell if they have new ones (old left, new right):

Attachment 49382

[CTScott]

Originally Posted by andulong

I just bought a set of bolts at my local Toyota dealer today. Unfortunately they look just like the old ones and have two marks, or lines on the head. I hope they did not sell me some old ones hoping I would not know the difference. Is there any other way to tell the difference? I am waiting to install them until I am sure they are the upgraded bolts. I am afraid if I go back to Toyota they will not know the difference, if there is one. Thanks.

There is not actually a different new bolt. It is simply a case of replacing like with like, and if you read the TSB, doing a bit of extra seam sealing limit the water that can enter in with the bolt.

[Hershey]

Thanks ! We have the old bolts . Wonder if Yaris Claus ( a.k.a. CT ) will replace them Christmas . Will leave cookies , milk , and a socket wrench kit in the trunk .

[CoryM]

I am assuming they rust through to a certain point, then the high forces of the subframe blows the head off the bolts. There is a huge load on the subframe bolts when flexing the body. As I said, one of my bolts was completely immersed in water even after 2-3wks of no water exposure (rain or washing). If you live in a salty part of the world, you could have those bolts immersed in salt water 365 days a year. In marine applications it is possible to lose almost 1mm/yr of steel. In Scott's picture of the old bolts, the one on the left is through the zinc near the head of the bolt. Once the zinc coating is gone, those 14mm(?) bolts won't last long in those conditions. And that location is typically where bolts will pop apart under tension as well.

I keep forgetting to see if I can read the TSB at work yet. I am curious if they are doing anything to prevent water/salt from getting into the bolt holes again or not. My right side has a little crash damage, which allows the water to drain, so it's easy enough to correct.

[Mrsrd08]

I wonder if they will reimburse me for having the motor control arm replaced due to this issue with the bolt?

[JarHarms]

Never got the TSB but our Yaris had the LHS bolt fail (bolt head fell off, control arm flopping around) due to this issue. I was out of state on a work trip so it was repaired (at our expense >$1000) at the dealer. We were told that they had awhile invested in the bolt extraction....sissies. Two new bolts and two "un-nessesary" control arms later.......
Water collects in that area, corrosion weakens the bolts, suspension forces overcome bolt strength, control arm flops around, leading to noise and an unsafe condition.
I highly doubt Toyota will reimburse anything unless the failure rate is high enough to require a mandatory recall. "Recall" something Toyota wants to avoid like the plague.

**Then Toyota mails a lame 36,000mile warranty extension out for this issue. Yea, thanks.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by JarHarms

Never got the TSB but our Yaris had the LHS bolt fail (bolt head fell off, control arm flopping around) due to this issue. I was out of state on a work trip so it was repaired (at our expense) at the dealer. We were told that they had awhile invested in the bolt extraction....sissies. Two new bolts and control arms later.......
Water collects in that area, corrosion weakens the bolts, suspension forces overcome bolt strength, control arm flops around, leading to noise and an unsafe condition.
I highly doubt Toyota will reimburse anything unless the failure rate is high enough to require a mandatory recall. "Recall" something Toyota wants to avoid like the plague.

I would be taking this up with Corporate if I were you. See an attorney first.

On second thought see an attorney that specializes in things like that and see Toyota in court.

[bronsin]

Can anyone publish a link to the TSB?

Thanks!