Neg. camber machined rear spacers???

[Tamago]

the reason that camber spacers were never made is because:

under compression, camber on a trailing arm axle turns into toe-in.. so. if i were to develop camber shims for the stock-height yaris, and they're installed on a lowered yaris, a good portion of my camber would now turn into toe-in (the car is already toe-in from the factory). so, now your tires truly ARE gonna get shredded..

likewise, if i designed the camber spacers for a lowered yaris, and someone with a stock-height yaris installed them on their car, a lot of that camber would now be toe-out.. which is not a safe thing for the average car/average driver (toe out makes you spin out)..

this is why we (Penguin Garage) never developed camber spacers. as far as the kiwi who knocked off our design, i cannot answer as to why he never made any...

[Yaristeve]

Originally Posted by Tamago

the reason that camber spacers were never made is because:

under compression, camber on a trailing arm axle turns into toe-in.. so. if i were to develop camber shims for the stock-height yaris, and they're installed on a lowered yaris, a good portion of my camber would now turn into toe-in (the car is already toe-in from the factory). so, now your tires truly ARE gonna get shredded..

likewise, if i designed the camber spacers for a lowered yaris, and someone with a stock-height yaris installed them on their car, a lot of that camber would now be toe-out.. which is not a safe thing for the average car/average driver (toe out makes you spin out)..

this is why we (Penguin Garage) never developed camber spacers. as far as the kiwi who knocked off our design, i cannot answer as to why he never made any...

This makes sense; as the suspension rises (car drops) axle rotates, camber -> toe in.

So, why would there be toe-in designed in? I can see doing so for IRS because of the flexing of bushings results in toe-out under heavy braking. Is the Yaris rear axle relatively flexible to be able to twist? Would there be any advantage to instead design a four- or five-link rear axle conversion?

[Viperoni]

Originally Posted by Tamago

the reason that camber spacers were never made is because:

under compression, camber on a trailing arm axle turns into toe-in.. so. if i were to develop camber shims for the stock-height yaris, and they're installed on a lowered yaris, a good portion of my camber would now turn into toe-in (the car is already toe-in from the factory). so, now your tires truly ARE gonna get shredded..

likewise, if i designed the camber spacers for a lowered yaris, and someone with a stock-height yaris installed them on their car, a lot of that camber would now be toe-out.. which is not a safe thing for the average car/average driver (toe out makes you spin out)..

this is why we (Penguin Garage) never developed camber spacers. as far as the kiwi who knocked off our design, i cannot answer as to why he never made any...

I understand.

The question is, how much toe in actually happens?

Doing some more research on the topic, I came across this article: http://www.worldautosteel.org/upload...eam_Design.pdf through a wikipedia link, and it turns out that *that* twist beam design gets camber gain through compression (1.5* at 1inch), along with very mild toe in (0.15* at 1inch).

It also gets very mild toe-out during extension .25* at 1 inch and starts going positive camber as well; 1.5* at 1inch.

See pages 168-169.
Their suspension design is different than ours though.


So the question really is; what does our suspension do as is?