Aerodynamics of Toyota offered Spoilers

[fnkngrv]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

Like these ones collecting dust on my desk:

These are not allowed on a production category car in this case.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by fnkngrv

That is a common association and misconception. AFAIK when you go to look at valuation of a vehicle it is listed a spoiler as well as when you do the "build your owner" on a manufacturer's site. This is how they are officially listed by the Land Speed staff here which has attempted to bring their rules in alignment with the SCTA and ECTA:

Spoiler
A device on the upper portion of the body for the purpose of spoiling lift.

as opposed to a wing:

Wing:
A special class of aerodynamic effect device intended to provide down force.

I am not an aerodynamic engineer therefore I can't argue or debate the nuances between the two devices. I only know that Toyota calls it a Spoiler as well as NADA, etc when you look it up. I would need to get general direction from Toyota themselves on whether the spoiler that is OEM is specifically and officially merely cosmetic or whether or not their definition is truly as a Spoiler or Wing. The main driving factor for this is that according to an engineering site that I was researching on had this to say about the differences:

Basically, what Bernoulli's principle says, for a physics refresher, is that fluid moving at higher rates of speed create less pressure than fluids moving at slower speeds, and if you have to move an equal amount of air around each side, you can make the distance longer on one side to impart a force. In the case of an airplane, a wing has the longer side of the air foil on top, to create low pressure on top of the wing and high pressure underneath it, which gives the plane enough lift above certain speeds to fly. On a car, you can use a wing the exact same way for the opposite effect. Flip the wing over so that the longer section is on the bottom, then you create a low pressure section on the bottom side of the wing, and a high pressure area on top. This will create downforce on the rear of the car, pushing the rear of the car into the ground. This is more complicated, but ultimately more effective as a wing creates less drag than a spoiler. Basically, all things being equal, if you put a spoiler and a wing on 2 identical cars, set for the same amount of downforce, the wing would have less drag, which results in quicker acceleration and a higher eventual top speed, however minor these numbers might be (as little as .2mph, or as much as 10mph, depending on how aggressive the wing/spoiler are.)

This being said then the lip spoiler that is sold elsewhere in the world would be just that, a spoiler as opposed to what they offer with the S kit and the Thai Vios equivalent which in turn would actually be a wing per Bernoulli's principle since the underside of the device is shorter that the top. This would mean that Toyota's official designation of a "Spoiler" would be wrong by technical definition. This all may be a moot point dependant upon what they would allow me for devices since the car came from production with a Spoiler/Wing.

This is making my head hurt.

lol, exactly, that's why I just group "wings" with "spoilers." I don't think there are many people who actually distinguish one from the other.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Since we're talking about spoilers and wings, lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6_MUycoPPs

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by fnkngrv

These are not allowed on a production category car in this case.

And that is the very reason they are collecting dust.

[fnkngrv]

^ Might be picking a pair or two of those up depending on whether or not I change categories.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Hey Adrian, are you allowed to tape off any door, hood, and trunk lines (lacking a better term) and fold your side mirrors in?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

And I just looked at pics of your car, what about removing the window visors too? I'm sure they disrupt the airflow (after I wash my car, I can see water droplets on my window going in a circular fashion when I'm driving down the freeway, yes, I don't dry behind the visors).

And if they let you run any rims, how about finding those rims that 39 (Andy) had, I think it was him. They were Work Lead Sled rims, I think. And removing your license plates too? I never took physics, so I'm not sure if any of this would actually help. Just throwing out ideas. lol

[1.5]

Jason what would it take to entice you to brush off the dust and throw those in a parcel?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

These rims

[fnkngrv]

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

Hey Adrian, are you allowed to tape off any door, hood, and trunk lines (lacking a better term) and fold your side mirrors in?

I do tape off several areas and yes I do fold in my side mirrors.

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

And I just looked at pics of your car, what about removing the window visors too? I'm sure they disrupt the airflow (after I wash my car, I can see water droplets on my window going in a circular fashion when I'm driving down the freeway, yes, I don't dry behind the visors).

And if they let you run any rims, how about finding those rims that 39 (Andy) had, I think it was him. They were Work Lead Sled rims, I think. And removing your license plates too? I never took physics, so I'm not sure if any of this would actually help. Just throwing out ideas. lol

I have not thought of removing the window visors...that may not be a bad idea...thank you.

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

These rims

I have moved over to 15s again and the body as well as chasis are thanking me . The new combo is lightweight along with the tires each corner is now 31lbs instead of 56lbs. Even though once you have them rolling my 18s weight did not necessarily hinder me, the tire width alone theoretically causes unneeded and unwanted drag. my acceleration is much improved to at least 100mph however I haven't taken the car yet to see if it has netted me much above that yet...keeping that for race days and as a personal surprise. As for other wheel offerings those that you have shown would not be allowed as they are considered a covered wheel since more than 120 degrees of the tread circumference is shielded from the air stream by the covering and outside of what a production vehicle may have come with.


great questions and attempts at assisting!

[fnkngrv]

Originally Posted by 1.5

Jason what would it take to entice you to brush off the dust and throw those in a parcel?

This coming from the guy with an avatar description of "Form>Function"



j/k...couldn't leave that one alone.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by fnkngrv

I do tape off several areas and yes I do fold in my side mirrors.

I have not thought of removing the window visors...that may not be a bad idea...thank you.

I have moved over to 15s again and the body as well as chasis are thanking me . The new combo is lightweight along with the tires each corner is now 31lbs instead of 56lbs. Even though once you have them rolling my 18s weight did not necessarily hinder me, the tire width alone theoretically causes unneeded and unwanted drag. my acceleration is much improved to at least 100mph however I haven't taken the car yet to see if it has netted me much above that yet...keeping that for race days and as a personal surprise. As for other wheel offerings those that you have shown would not be allowed as they are considered a covered wheel since more than 120 degrees of the tread circumference is shielded from the air stream by the covering and outside of what a production vehicle may have come with.


great questions and attempts at assisting!

Dang, so much for my ideas. hahahaha. hmmm, even the SSR Kreis rims won't work then since they're past 120* covered. So yeah, hopefully taking off the window visors will net you a few mph more.

Another thing, this may sound crazy, but what about doing a full detail (clay bar, polish, and wax) on the entire car (including windows, head/taillights, wiper arms, etc). Anything to decrease drag, right?

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by fnkngrv

This coming from the guy with an avatar description of "Form>Function"



j/k...couldn't leave that one alone.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

How about the Enkei NT03 rims, not sure if that odd ring will help or be detrimental.

[1.5]

Originally Posted by fnkngrv

This coming from the guy with an avatar description of "Form>Function"



j/k...couldn't leave that one alone.

Yea sorry to disappoint but it will serve only an aesthetic purpose lol

[malibuguy]

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

Another thing, this may sound crazy, but what about doing a full detail (clay bar, polish, and wax) on the entire car (including windows, head/taillights, wiper arms, etc). Anything to decrease drag, right?

Hotrod magazine proved that a detail did not make any gains up to 200mph

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by malibuguy

Hotrod magazine proved that a detail did not make any gains up to 200mph

Well there you go.

I'm all out of ideas on getting a few more mph's outta the car. lol

[david_827]

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

These rims

What rims are those? They're wicked nice