I was going to trade it in...

[why?]

Originally Posted by Superfly

Every one of my friends laugh about how having a manual will save their car from theft and guess what? People who jack cars know how to drive standard at least here in the inner city they do. In fact, those cars are often sportier models leading them to be taken more often. Maybe people just do not steal Yari?

if a professional thief wants your car you are screwed. But as for joyriders? Wouldn't be surprised is most had no idea how to drive a manual.

At the rate technology is going in a decade the only reason to buy a manual will be because you want it. Computers and newer computer controlled transmissions will be able to do everything , including gas mileage better.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by SKurj

Well the 86 landed sooner than I thought it would, so I went down to the dealership to buy one...

I made 2 deals, first was for a scion FRS (not the Toyota that I really would have preferred) and as soon as I said my 2009 Yaris was an MT they said they didn't want it...
I eventually cancelled that deal as I decided I preferred the upgraded trim of the BRZ Sport Tech.. again the dealer didn't want the Yaris..

I don't get it in these days of $1.25+/L for gas... but in the end I am keeping the yaris for winter duty and perhaps my nephew when he finally hits 16 in in another 3-4 years.

Had an echo 3dr before the current Yaris 3dr and they have been great for me. They are my first recomendation to anyone looking for decent, reliable cheap transportation and with a few upgrades a great fun car.

What country are you in? I've never heard of a situation (in the US) where a dealer refuses a trade in. A dealer will take anything, even complete trash. They may not give you much, but they'll take it.

Originally Posted by DeathBeard

Frs and brz are a dime a dozen, I see at least 10 of these a day, played out. I don't like cars everyone has....viva vitz

I have yet to see a single FRS or BRZ in the heavily populated northeast.

Originally Posted by why?

not being able to drive a manual is like buying a computer and refusing to learn how to use photoshop.

An odd analogy since most people don't know how to use Photoshop and computers don't come with Photoshop preloaded. It costs $700 (legitimately).

[edmscan]

The OP is from the Toronto area ... aka GTA.

[El Kapitan]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

What country are you in? I've never heard of a situation (in the US) where a dealer refuses a trade in. A dealer will take anything, even complete trash. They may not give you much, but they'll take it.

i've had a couple dealers laughingly turn down my 1992 civic with 400 000 miles, but i expect that reaction and it's mostly a joke that i try to trade it.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by why?

......

At the rate technology is going in a decade the only reason to buy a manual will be because you want it. Computers and newer computer controlled transmissions will be able to do everything , including gas mileage better.

It's already the case. Most of today's automatics are more efficient and faster than manual counterparts. With 6 speed autos commonplace, it's no surprise.

An exception is the Yaris because Toyota carried over the archaic 4 speed auto.

[Captain Slow]

Even if there are a few automatics which are technically getting better mileage than 5spd manuals....compare that to a 6 or 7 speed manual and you will see once again that the manual is more efficient. There is more drivetrain power loss through a slushbox and it also weighs considerably more than a manual box.

Not to mention that manual gearboxes are cheap and easy to fix should anything go wrong. Couple that with the better control it provides for performance or economy driving and it's a no-brainer. Manual transmissions will always be the choice for gearheads and for good reason.

I remember in the 90s folks saying that the automatic-equipped Supra turbo was actually slightly faster in a drag race than the manual counterpart....yet everyone I knew lusted after the manual because it was more fun :)

[El Kapitan]

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

Even if there are a few automatics which are technically getting better mileage than 5spd manuals....compare that to a 6 or 7 speed manual and you will see once again that the manual is more efficient. There is more drivetrain power loss through a slushbox and it also weighs considerably more than a manual box.

Not to mention that manual gearboxes are cheap and easy to fix should anything go wrong. Couple that with the better control it provides for performance or economy driving and it's a no-brainer. Manual transmissions will always be the choice for gearheads and for good reason.

over in the hypermiler forum and the mitsubishi mirage (best regular gas car mileage car) forum, all of the most harcore people drive standard, even though the CVT for the mirage does better on paper.

[Captain Slow]

as to the OP, it is hard to believe they didn't want it, most dealers here will take anything to get you to buy a new one.

I know dealerships always hate trying to sell manuals because there are so many people who are too lazy to learn but still.

I promise you one thing, if manual gearboxes are still around when my daughter gets her license (she's 3 right now) her first car will absolutely be a manual. If she doesn't like it then she's free to not have a car. It makes you pay more attention to what you are doing and that is a good thing.

[Fenanorn]

I've never experienced a dealer not wanting a car at all. That's pathetic.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Fenanorn

I've never experienced a dealer not wanting a car at all. That's pathetic.

In my case with the Swift, that was the last year that model was going to be sold in the U.S., and the Toyota dealer knew it. Add in a Blue Book value of zero and replacing the steering rack, and I can't say that I blame them.

[devananne]

I've never driven a manual before and purposefully sought out one because I wanted to learn how. Dealers were amazed that I specifically requested a manual, and often didn't have one in stock (one dealer I went to had 9 automatic Honda Fits, but no manuals). They were probably hyped to get the one they had off their lot!

#1 reason to learn: I had to get in a car with a drunk driver one time because I needed a ride and had absolutely no idea how to drive his car. After that was when I asked the family for a tutorial.

[detroiter]

There's a reason it's called a STANDARD transmission

[why?]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

What country are you in? I've never heard of a situation (in the US) where a dealer refuses a trade in. A dealer will take anything, even complete trash. They may not give you much, but they'll take it.
I have yet to see a single FRS or BRZ in the heavily populated northeast.
An odd analogy since most people don't know how to use Photoshop and computers don't come with Photoshop preloaded. It costs $700 (legitimately).

Yea, but who gets it legitimately except graphic artists? At this point though the term photoshop is a generic for any picture manipulation software. Some mistake MS paint for it.

And the reason it is a good analogy is because you don't need it to run a computer, but almost everyone that heavily uses a computer finds out that it does come in handy.

Originally Posted by Kal-El

It's already the case. Most of today's automatics are more efficient and faster than manual counterparts. With 6 speed autos commonplace, it's no surprise.

An exception is the Yaris because Toyota carried over the archaic 4 speed auto.

I disagree. There are some high tech automatic transmissions that are better than manuals, bet they have not filtered down to be mainstream yet. Most mainstream vehicles still use old fashioned slush boxes instead of high tech automatics.

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

Even if there are a few automatics which are technically getting better mileage than 5spd manuals....compare that to a 6 or 7 speed manual and you will see once again that the manual is more efficient. There is more drivetrain power loss through a slushbox and it also weighs considerably more than a manual box.

Not to mention that manual gearboxes are cheap and easy to fix should anything go wrong. Couple that with the better control it provides for performance or economy driving and it's a no-brainer. Manual transmissions will always be the choice for gearheads and for good reason.

I remember in the 90s folks saying that the automatic-equipped Supra turbo was actually slightly faster in a drag race than the manual counterpart....yet everyone I knew lusted after the manual because it was more fun :)

That is the thing though, there are automatics that provide better control and get better gas mileage. They shift faster and legitimately do everything better than a human could. At this point most of them come on a Ferrari. Although MB's 8 speed auto is rather amazing as well, as is VW's double clutch auto. These types of transmissions will eventually filter down to all cars.

Oh and yes, at this point you cannot buy a brand new Ferrari with a manual. Think on that.

Originally Posted by detroiter

There's a reason it's called a STANDARD transmission

because it was standard 60 years ago. The first automatic however did come out in 1904, and the Model T had one in 1908. So not so standard. Nothing in automotive tech is truly new. electric cars came out in the 1890's and at the turn of the century the fastest cars were steam powered.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by why?

Yea, but who gets it legitimately except graphic artists? At this point though the term photoshop is a generic for any picture manipulation software. Some mistake MS paint for it.

And the reason it is a good analogy is because you don't need it to run a computer, but almost everyone that heavily uses a computer finds out that it does come in handy.



I disagree. There are some high tech automatic transmissions that are better than manuals, bet they have not filtered down to be mainstream yet. Most mainstream vehicles still use old fashioned slush boxes instead of high tech automatics.



That is the thing though, there are automatics that provide better control and get better gas mileage. They shift faster and legitimately do everything better than a human could. At this point most of them come on a Ferrari. Although MB's 8 speed auto is rather amazing as well, as is VW's double clutch auto. These types of transmissions will eventually filter down to all cars.

Oh and yes, at this point you cannot buy a brand new Ferrari with a manual. Think on that.


because it was standard 60 years ago. The first automatic however did come out in 1904, and the Model T had one in 1908. So not so standard. Nothing in automotive tech is truly new. electric cars came out in the 1890's and at the turn of the century the fastest cars were steam powered.

Call me paranoid, but I want to have a car, if possible, that is light enough for me to push by myself and has a manual transmission....so that I can compression start it on my own if necessary. Every manual transmission car I've owned fit this criteria.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by why?

Yea, but who gets it legitimately except graphic artists? At this point though the term photoshop is a generic for any picture manipulation software. Some mistake MS paint for it.

And the reason it is a good analogy is because you don't need it to run a computer, but almost everyone that heavily uses a computer finds out that it does come in handy.



I disagree. There are some high tech automatic transmissions that are better than manuals, bet they have not filtered down to be mainstream yet. Most mainstream vehicles still use old fashioned slush boxes instead of high tech automatics.



That is the thing though, there are automatics that provide better control and get better gas mileage. They shift faster and legitimately do everything better than a human could. At this point most of them come on a Ferrari. Although MB's 8 speed auto is rather amazing as well, as is VW's double clutch auto. These types of transmissions will eventually filter down to all cars.

Oh and yes, at this point you cannot buy a brand new Ferrari with a manual. Think on that.


because it was standard 60 years ago. The first automatic however did come out in 1904, and the Model T had one in 1908. So not so standard. Nothing in automotive tech is truly new. electric cars came out in the 1890's and at the turn of the century the fastest cars were steam powered.

Last night I was looking at the April 2013 issue of Motor Trend and skimmed the article on the 2014 Subaru Forester. Subaru seems to be following the trend you discuss in your post above. The article mentions the 170 HP naturally aspirated version and the 250 HP turbocharged XT version. The article states that the 170 HP version is available with a 6-speed manual or a CVT, but that the 250 HP version is only available with the CVT. IIRC, there is quite a bit of difference in acceleration 0-60 between the two (6.2 sec vs 9.0 sec).

I picked up some brochures at an auto show here last month. I didn't sit in the Forester at the show (and didn't look at the sticker,) because the only Subaru I'd get is the base Impreza Hatchback. I looked at the brochures for the first time since the day of the show, and did find a 2014 Forester brochure. According to the brochure, the Motor Trend article is correct re the engine and transmission choices.

Another article I found online states that the CVT transmission in this Forester has a 6-speed manual mode and an 8-speed manual mode.

[Superfly]

Five years. I give it five years before multiple mainstream car manufacturers produce a superior automatic transmission that they begin to equip their cars with. I am betting on Ford and the Chrysler Group being the first too. The mandate on fuel efficiency is going to be the driving factor along with the continuing urban-ification of the states.

AFAIK, some dealerships will decline to take a trade-in, but not many. The dealership I bought my Yaris from generally avoids anything over 100k miles because they have difficulty moving the car. Not many people trade in a 100k mile car though. Dealerships want used cars because it is a better source of revenue and with the way the economy is, people are looking for more affordable cars. New cars are just getting way to expensive.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Superfly

The mandate on fuel efficiency is going to be the driving factor along with the continuing urban-ification of the states.

I agree. I don't like the continuing 'urban-ification', but I do like the mandate on fuel efficiency (Obama significantly increasing future CAFE standards...one of the few things he's done that I agree with).

Dealerships want used cars because it is a better source of revenue and with the way the economy is, people are looking for more affordable cars.

I agree.

[InfamousDragon]

I would take it over my auto but I like the 4 door version of the 2012 LE. The car has grown on me