Chipped Keys

[dj92]

Wasn't there a method to learn the key without a programmer?
Have a look at the manuals linked somewhere around here...

[CTScott]

Originally Posted by dj92

Wasn't there a method to learn the key without a programmer?
Have a look at the manuals linked somewhere around here...

I think that only the initial registration (with not keys yet programmed) can be done without the techstream. Registration of additional keys to a programmed system requires techstream.

[dj92]

Are you sure?
Have a look at page 12
Engine Immobilizer.pdf

I assume, master keys are those which can be cloned this way and sub-keys can't.
However, I think a car is delivered with at least one master key ;)

Edit: D'oh, it's no Yaris :(
Maybe it works whatsoever :D

[CTScott]

Originally Posted by dj92

Are you sure?
Have a look at page 12
Engine Immobilizer.pdf

I assume, master keys are those which can be cloned this way and sub-keys can't.
However, I think a car is delivered with at least one master key ;)

Edit: D'oh, it's no Yaris :(
Maybe it works whatsoever :D

That's the procedure I was referring to. If you look the only section for "without the intelligent tester" is the new key with no keys registered mode.

[IllusionX]

I believe some states require all cars to have a chip key. At least, it is by law in Canada since 2008.

[JustPassinThru]

Originally Posted by IllusionX

I believe some states require all cars to have a chip key. At least, it is by law in Canada since 2008.

It may be; although I can't understand the government's "compelling interest." This isn't a Lamborghini we're talking about.

And if someone wants a car badly enough, he doesn't need keys. A wrecker that lifts by the tires will do just fine. Most cars aren't stolen to drive, even as getaways - they're stolen to part out. So, use your wrecker to haul it away, chop and drop.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by JustPassinThru

It may be; although I can't understand the government's "compelling interest." This isn't a Lamborghini we're talking about.

And if someone wants a car badly enough, he doesn't need keys. A wrecker that lifts by the tires will do just fine. Most cars aren't stolen to drive, even as getaways - they're stolen to part out. So, use your wrecker to haul it away, chop and drop.

Yeah, that post was an eye roller to me. I love Canada, but that policy = too much government meddling IMO.

[The Limo 2]

My 2007 Yaris M.S.R.P was $19,835. I manage to talk the dealer down $800.00 since I purchased it at the end of July 2007 plus was paying cash. The Federal government gave me back $1000.00 for buying a fuel saving car. Total price to me $18035. So I guess I can still look in the mirror.
Roy

[dj92]

Well, where do you want to go if you steal a car in the US? :D
Mexico might be hard (or isn't it?)

In Europe, it's the east (from Poland to Russia), especially since the iron curtain has fallen, that's why it's mandatory in Germany since 1.1.1998 afaik

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by dj92

In Europe, it's the east (from Poland to Russia), especially since the iron curtain has fallen, that's why it's mandatory in Germany since 1.1.1998 afaik

What if the person paid cash for their car, doesn't carry what we call 'comp and collision', and therefore won't be making a claim to their insurance company. Why is it any of the government's business? If the answer is to aid the other person's insurance company (if you are not at fault), that is a real eye roller IMO.

Is full coverage insurance (comprehensive, collision, and liability) mandatory in Germany? If so, is it mandatory no matter the age of the car?

[IllusionX]

Originally Posted by JustPassinThru

It may be; although I can't understand the government's "compelling interest." This isn't a Lamborghini we're talking about.

And if someone wants a car badly enough, he doesn't need keys. A wrecker that lifts by the tires will do just fine. Most cars aren't stolen to drive, even as getaways - they're stolen to part out. So, use your wrecker to haul it away, chop and drop.

Well, there IS a big issues with cars being stolen and exported. So, there are probably as many cars being stolen and then exported than parted out. This is where the gov't step in. They don't care if it is a luxury car or a econobox, they just generalize and have all cars have a chip key. Seriously, it doesn't bother me.

Originally Posted by The Limo 2

My 2007 Yaris M.S.R.P was $19,835. I manage to talk the dealer down $800.00 since I purchased it at the end of July 2007 plus was paying cash. The Federal government gave me back $1000.00 for buying a fuel saving car. Total price to me $18035. So I guess I can still look in the mirror.
Roy

My Sedan was around that price, but having purchased it in 2006, i was not eligible for the 1000$ rebate, so i paid something around 23400$ T&P and taxes included. Anyways, the whole point of trading in the echo was to have a fully loaded car.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by IllusionX

Well, there IS a big issues with cars being stolen and exported. So, there are probably as many cars being stolen and then exported than parted out. This is where the gov't step in. They don't care if it is a luxury car or a econobox, they just generalize and have all cars have a chip key. Seriously, it doesn't bother me.

I still don't see what (as JustPassin Thru put it) 'compelling interest' the government has....unless HUGE numbers of citizens are complaining TO THE GOVERNMENT that their vehicle insurance rates are going up FOR THIS PARTICULAR REASON.

[dj92]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

Is full coverage insurance (comprehensive, collision, and liability) mandatory in Germany? If so, is it mandatory no matter the age of the car?

Nope, however I'm having a basic insurance (which is mandatory (mostly to save people from getting e.g. half-paralyzed and getting no compensation), it pays for all damage you do to others (cars/persons/things/...)) plus a full coverage insurance.
I'm just having the bill for this year in front of me, so I can give you details:
I'm paying in total 720,69€, which is quite cheap for a full coverage.

The not-really-full-coverage pays for damage on my car by:
-"forest animals" (no, we have nor bears here :D )
-theft
-storm/lightning/flood/hail
-broken glass
-fire/explosion
-short corcuits, including marten's bites
-collisions with cattle
-glass repairs after rock fall (with no co-payment!)


The full coverage adds payment for:
-vandalism
-hit and run (done to me)
-accidents due to my fault

When I use one of these coverages, I pay 100...300€ of the damage done out of my own pocket, this is an option to get a lower bill ;)

For the basic coverage, I pay 378,1€, which is 37% of the standard rate (gained by 9 years of damage free driving), and for the full coverage I pay 342,59€, which is 27%/ 20 years.

You see that I could not drives this long time without damage :D

It's a fully legal trick; my granddad retired from driving (very wise decision), in this case, one has the option to "rescue" the bonus earned up to then.
The only problem is, that the legal owner of the car can not get more damage free years than the has his license.
This would have given me 4 years each, which is not that much.
So officially, it's my father's car (but I pay for it and am the only one who regularly uses it).

It's hard to afford a car otherwise, for beginners, the rates are at whopping 130% and more...

This way, I'd have to pay 2290,74€! (calculated with 100%)
That's about 1/3 of what I paid for my used car

I'm also having another car (since some weeks officially), this olive green beauty:


It gets a quite good MPG due to its diesel engine :)
I'm planning to get it on the road again (if I find a small holiday job - working 4 weeks for a whole year of car use is okay imho), in addition to the yaris.
In this case, I might take only a basic insurance because despite its neat condition, its remaining value is just about 2000€.
PS: She also suffers from lock jam (due to wear), but I'll tackle this issue maybe already this month :D


PPS:

Originally Posted by IllusionX

They don't care if it is a luxury car or a econobox, they just generalize and have all cars have a chip key. Seriously, it doesn't bother me.

Me neither, I'd even go that far to be willing to get used to pay 500€ more for a car if VSC, fog lights (ridicoulously rear fog lights ARE mandatory in Germany) and some other things became mandatory, because imho they're nowadays rather easy to fix (at least with techstream and toyota manuals at hand)

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by dj92

Nope, however I'm having a basic insurance (which is mandatory (mostly to save people from getting e.g. half-paralyzed and getting no compensation), it pays for all damage you do to others (cars/persons/things/...)) plus a full coverage insurance.
I'm just having the bill for this year in front of me, so I can give you details:
I'm paying in total 720,69€, which is quite cheap for a full coverage.

The not-really-full-coverage pays for damage on my car by:
-"forest animals" (no, we have nor bears here :D )
-theft
-storm/lightning/flood/hail
-broken glass
-fire/explosion
-short corcuits, including marten's bites
-collisions with cattle
-glass repairs after rock fall (with no co-payment!)


The full coverage adds payment for:
-vandalism
-hit and run (done to me)
-accidents due to my fault

When I use one of these coverages, I pay 100...300€ of the damage done out of my own pocket, this is an option to get a lower bill ;)

For the basic coverage, I pay 378,1€, which is 37% of the standard rate (gained by 9 years of damage free driving), and for the full coverage I pay 342,59€, which is 27%/ 20 years.

You see that I could not drives this long time without damage :D

It's a fully legal trick; my granddad retired from driving (very wise decision), in this case, one has the option to "rescue" the bonus earned up to then.
The only problem is, that the legal owner of the car can not get more damage free years than the has his license.
This would have given me 4 years each, which is not that much.
So officially, it's my father's car (but I pay for it and am the only one who regularly uses it).

It's hard to afford a car otherwise, for beginners, the rates are at whopping 130% and more...

This way, I'd have to pay 2290,74€! (calculated with 100%)
That's about 1/3 of what I paid for my used car

I'm also having another car (since some weeks officially), this olive green beauty:


It gets a quite good MPG due to its diesel engine :)
I'm planning to get it on the road again (if I find a small holiday job - working 4 weeks for a whole year of car use is okay imho), in addition to the yaris.
In this case, I might take only a basic insurance because despite its neat condition, its remaining value is just about 2000€.
PS: She also suffers from lock jam (due to wear), but I'll tackle this issue maybe already this month :D


PPS:

Me neither, I'd even go that far to be willing to get used to pay 500€ more for a car if VSC, fog lights (ridicoulously rear fog lights ARE mandatory in Germany) and some other things became mandatory, because imho they're nowadays rather easy to fix (at least with techstream and toyota manuals at hand)

Very interesting. What are the minimum liability limits in Germany? IIRC, member Edmscan once replied to me in a thread that the minimum liability limit Canadians (or at least those in the Province of Alberta) can carry is $2,000,000 CAD per accident. The minimum limit in California is $30,000 per accident (with $15,000 per person and $5,000 property damage). The California level has been the same since at least the late 1970s.

[dj92]

It's quite high:
-2,5 millions per person
-if three or more persons are injured or killed 7,5 millions in total
-1,12 millions of material damage and
-50k€ for asset damage that is not connected to a personal or material damage

This sounds quite high, but lots of insurances have far higher liabilities, I consider this reasonable.
The most expensive case in Germany was in 2004 when a car hit a road tanker, which fell from the bridge this happened on and damaged it by catching fire.
The entire damage was 32 millions...

Most insurances have liabilities of about 100 million €.
PS:
How many cars of the specified type are stolen is in fact taken into account when the rates are calculated for full coverage insurance here.

[IllusionX]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

I still don't see what (as JustPassin Thru put it) 'compelling interest' the government has....unless HUGE numbers of citizens are complaining TO THE GOVERNMENT that their vehicle insurance rates are going up FOR THIS PARTICULAR REASON.

Insurance rate doesn't have anything to do with government regulations. It's obvious that rate would go down if you have an immobilizer.

[dj92]

Originally Posted by IllusionX

Insurance rate doesn't have anything to do with government regulations. It's obvious that rate would go down if you have an immobilizer.

This^

Sadly I have to learn for exams at the end of this month, but when I have the time, I will have a look at the immobilizer and the ways to override it - just for academic reasons, of course.
(Don't get your hopes up for a simple solution...)

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by IllusionX

Insurance rate doesn't have anything to do with government regulations. It's obvious that rate would go down if you have an immobilizer.

Then what 'compelling interest' does the government have? Why would what type of key a car has (as long as the key isn't going to physically harm the public ) be any of the the government's business...unless, as The Limo 2 posted is the case in BC, most people are insured through a provincial government sponsored company? Is this the case in Quebec?