STF posts

[ilikerice]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....=g-Force+Rival

New tire all the ST people are buying up for this year.. This may be my next set

[xnamerxx]

I just picked up a set of Z2's for street/backup/rain duty. Still sticking with my Toyo's until its proven one of the newcomers is faster, which I hope happens, I hate the Toyos.

The only thing that worries me is the "rivals" are really heavy, which could be a bad thing on such a light care like ours. I would be picking up something like 7lbs a tire and ~30 lbs is a pretty significant amount of weight.

Also don't forget but Kumho has the 720 street tires coming out as well so in the next few months we'll see who has the real magic.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by ilikerice

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....=g-Force+Rival

New tire all the ST people are buying up for this year.. This may be my next set

Just got back from NOLA and the BFG Rival launch... Seems like a good tire, but I don't think much can be taken from this product launch. There were four stations set up to test the Rival against a number of competitors, but no real data and no lap times were provided (or taken). The entire event relied completely on butt dyno, which I feel is useless - all to often things that feel fast are slow, and vice verse.

A little background: we were not allowed to launch any of the cars (they were saving the clutches) so it was impossible to get a read on off the line bite. We had to run all of the autox courses in 2nd gear only, and we were not allowed to left foot brake (they had problems with people doing this the first day and overheating the brakes). None of the cars were optimized to benefit/maximize any one tire, all of the pressures were set to match the door jam plate, making it as fair as possible for all. I was told none of the autox cars had any type of performance adjustments, even the alignment was OE spec.

The skid pad was not done on a flat surface, there was a big crown in the lot, which made the one piece of data (iPad G meter) completely useless. And the "instructor" in the passengers seat was shouting out peak Gs, there was no sustained numbers - and as you might imagine without a flat lot it was easy to trick the meter and generate a higher number. This test was the BFG Sport COMP-2, Rival and R1-S.

The short autocross course was done with the Subaru STi. The one thing that was a little suspect here is that while TC appeared to be turned off some level of Stability Control was still on, which made it difficult to tell what the tire was doing and what the car was doing. The Toyo (R1R) was no match for the weight of the STi, it always feels like the wheels are going to scrape the ground when you put them on a big car. The Hankook (RS3) was a great match for the STi, it allowed excellent mid-corner rotation, and the car could be placed exactly where you wanted. The BFG felt as though it was bogging the car down, it was tight in the middle of the turn, and the rear of the car would simply not rotate - as if it had to much stick, or as if the Stability control was binding the car up.

The long autox course paired the BFG and Hankook up again, this time on the E46 BMW M3. On the BMW I felt as though each tire had an advantage on a certain part of the the course. The BFG was far superior in the high speed transition section, as the car was much more stable. However, in both high and low speed turns I liked the rotation offered by the Hankook much better.

On the road course we had a the ex Miller Cup Mustangs (FR500s), with the BFG versus the Falken (615K). This was another exercise that I did not find particularly useful due to the limited number of laps and having done no previous laps at the facility. The BFG seemed to be more stable under braking, had more grip on corner entry, and put power down better than the Falken, but without laps times or data there is no way to actually measure the difference in performance.

So far the best information on this new tire comes from the Tire Rack. They have done a good bit of testing including comparative tests, and they have a number of very experienced drivers on staff. I don't think the test results are posted on the TR website yet, but they showed them at NOLA, and the Rival did beat all of the competitor tires they ran it against. The test results were typically very close, within tenths. The other nugget of info we got is the BFG Rival likes to be stretched, not pinched. One of the fitments covered was a 235 on a 9" wide wheels. Sounds very R1R like in the sense that smaller sizes are going to be the ticket.

I am sure it wont be long before we see some real world results with the Rival, and it certainly appears it will be a challenger in all the classes, and due to the size line up it should own the classes with bigger cars.

BFG put on a first class event, and if you live in the area NOLA is a great facility, racers down there are very lucky.

[ilikerice]

Yea. Agreed. Weight is a killer.

Oh snap! I forgot about the v720s. I will prob try to squeeze every foot i can out of these azenis 615k. Will wait and see

[xnamerxx]

Just informed the weight might be off so we'll see.

Yeah my contis are so bald that I felt it was safer to drive my Mustang...when its pouring rain today. I srsly can't wait for my new tires to show up driving that gas hog around is killing me.

Yeah but its not just the v720, the new Toyo's are supposed to be out this year along with the new bridgestones so this new crop of tires is really good for choice hopefully a magic last forever rcomp level of grip tire pops up. One can dream

[FHT_Racing]

Great info!

[xnamerxx]

Its good to have some first hand knowledge. I still fear the newcomers won't overclass the existing Toyo's on the ligher cars, either from gearing or because they were engineered for 2500+ lb cars. In either case I'm glad new tires exist as I hate the existing Toyo's they feel like driving on erasers.

[xnamerxx]

Had our first event out of the year today at Fontana. The new setup on the car works amazingly now its just my turn to learn how to drive the car correctly.

I'm kinda pissed at myself I ended up PAXing 40th, but I had a +1 run that would have put me in 15th place, above some big name national champions. Oh well guess I have next event to fix it.

[justjesus]

Jason: Thanks for the info

ilikerice: congrats on the 2nd place finish

namer: fix it :)

[xnamerxx]

So I'm registering for the SD national tour, which is on Easter btw such a bad choice, and I decided to check out the Georgia National Tour reg list just to see how STF is stacking up around the country.
The Georgia tour STF is one of the biggest classes, but its looking a little empty over here on the west coast. Almost makes me wish I was in Florida over So cal...almost.

Well got the first event of the year at San Diego tomorrow I'm hoping for a better performance than my last event.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

So I'm registering for the SD national tour, which is on Easter btw such a bad choice, and I decided to check out the Georgia National Tour reg list just to see how STF is stacking up around the country.
The Georgia tour STF is one of the biggest classes, but its looking a little empty over here on the west coast. Almost makes me wish I was in Florida over So cal...almost.

Well got the first event of the year at San Diego tomorrow I'm hoping for a better performance than my last event.

STF as it sits makes about as much sense as B-Spec, its a good bit of money to be one of the slowest cars out there - in both Solo and Club Racing you can go a lot faster, have more people to play with and do it cheaper in other classes. Any time you have to break new ground, like you did with your header, that is seen as a barrier to those without the resources. Without some changes I doubt STF or B-Spec will become as big as the classes they are following/displacing.

[xnamerxx]

Your right.

But that barrier exists with any of the existing classes, $4k shocks for stock class or $1k tires that last 50 runs even for the cheapest classes. It would make much more sense to buy an existing race car that someone else dumped money into. As with any form of racing those with the money/means will probably perform better than you. As I see it right now I can't think of any class of racing that doesn't have a huge initial investment. Unless you enjoy racing 20-40yo cars and the maintenance headaches that come with it.

I could easily buy a Spec Miata or a Corvette and not have fun sitting back of the pack against a guy who has the means to replace his motor every season or a guy who can invest in brand new tires each event. I'm only surprised that there aren't more Civic Si's or Scion TC or whatever joining events. FWD cars in general don't have much membership here(as you know), could be because FWD is the devil, but not many people seem to race them. If I drove off to AZ i'd have some more people to play with but i'd probably be much faster than them.



So finished my event in SD today, my Co-Driver managed to have an unofficial PAX of 5th place but will probably drop a few places, I was only able to get unofficial of 8th place. I'm sure we'll both drop a few places once everything is finalized but still an impressive showing none the less.

[Steve35]

Thank you for letting me drive your car yesterday. You've done a great job on the car. The balance is great, it puts the power down very well and it has power!
Get a race set and get more seat time we'll see you start getting 1st all the time.

Steve

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by xnamerxx

Your right.

But that barrier exists with any of the existing classes, $4k shocks for stock class or $1k tires that last 50 runs even for the cheapest classes. It would make much more sense to buy an existing race car that someone else dumped money into. As with any form of racing those with the money/means will probably perform better than you. As I see it right now I can't think of any class of racing that doesn't have a huge initial investment. Unless you enjoy racing 20-40yo cars and the maintenance headaches that come with it.

I could easily buy a Spec Miata or a Corvette and not have fun sitting back of the pack against a guy who has the means to replace his motor every season or a guy who can invest in brand new tires each event. I'm only surprised that there aren't more Civic Si's or Scion TC or whatever joining events. FWD cars in general don't have much membership here(as you know), could be because FWD is the devil, but not many people seem to race them. If I drove off to AZ i'd have some more people to play with but i'd probably be much faster than them.



So finished my event in SD today, my Co-Driver managed to have an unofficial PAX of 5th place but will probably drop a few places, I was only able to get unofficial of 8th place. I'm sure we'll both drop a few places once everything is finalized but still an impressive showing none the less.

It is not a barrier in stock, it is a known quantity. There is an existing setup path for nearly every front running car out there. And the reality does not match the hype when it comes to shocks in stock, even those with purpose built mono-tubes are not typically spending $4k. Yes, the tires are expensive, and you need fresh ones to run up front, but that is known factor coming in.

What you have to battle in STF is the unknown cost. It is one thing to spend the money to replicate a winning setup and fail because as a driver you could not get it done. It is a completely different ball game when you are trying something new, and don't know what money you will see a return on in terms of performance and ability to sell it later - a set of stock class $4k shocks are worth something when you are done, a set of one-off STF shocks will have a much smaller resale market.

Quit spinning your wheel (the inside one) and go for an FSP build. Its only money.

[ilikerice]

Sweet, good luck. Yea, I will be at the Dixie tour this year.. unfortunately our first event here in Buccanner region was canceled for feb. so that leaving me with little practice before the Dixie National in March.. I may need to hit up some South Carolina or Jax event before.. Still need better tires before Nationals.. I really dont wanna run these Azenis

[NJ Drive]

I'm really excited for the season to begin as well. I'll be doing the DC, NJ, & Toledo Pros, Dover Tour, Devens Match Tour, and Nationals. I wish the Dixie Tour wasn't so far... good numbers in the class.

[ilikerice]

Yes. I will be going fsp by summer. I want lsd so bad. U got a spare trans w lsd u wanna get rid of? Lol

[xnamerxx]

Jason quit trying to make me setup my car to be a more hateful DD experience LOL

There's no arguing that, there is that perception that you'll need the MOTON/KONI/PENKSE whatever just to win and its hard to argue when you see some amazingly fast cars running on whatever custom shocks they're running. I only know what I've been quoted and not wanting to make any particular company look back it was well above $5k, but that's probably not the typical cost.

You know I don't think my co-driver Steve35 had the inside spin problems I was having, might be due to his better right foot control but I don't think he mentioned it to me.