Editorial: Will Americans buy cars with engines smaller than 1.5 liters?

[SailDesign]

I just back-checked, and the first car I owned with more than 100hp was when we first came to the States, in 1984. I had a '69 Mustang, with a whole amazing 120hp for it's 3000+ lbs! Next down from that before was a Peugeot 304, with 65 hp for its 2050 lbs. The 'Stang was a dog, the Peug a joy to drive.

[YarisDude]

Used to drive an old VW bug. It had a 1.3 L engine and I must say it did just fine. It would do 90 MPH (it just took its time getting there). I never got stuck in the snow in that car. The only bad thing was the air cooled engine used heater boxes to transfer the heat into the cabin. They always rusted out and you got really poor heat or gassed by the exhaust.

Yes, I would buy a 1.0 or 1.3 L Yaris. Especially if it was equipped with a 6 speed manual tranny - it prolly get 60 MPG. I don't know why, but I always liked small cars and the old pharts that drive em.

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by Thirty-Nine

With the discussion about the 2011 Yaris lately and what engine it will have, (such a 1.3-, 1.5-, or 1.8-liter engine), I began to think about smaller engine options. FYI, Toyota hasn't offered anything smaller than a 1.5 in the U.S. since the 1984 Toyota Starlet.

Do Americans have an aversion to engines smaller than 1.5 liters?

http://www.subcompactculture.com/200...cars-with.html

Hell yeah american's will buy less than 1.5L engines... they are called RX-7's.... and RX-8's (think the 8 still is a 1.3)

Crap... I'd love to have a yaris with a rotary engine.... tho... my MPG's would drop in half instantly.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Thirty-Nine

With the discussion about the 2011 Yaris lately and what engine it will have, (such a 1.3-, 1.5-, or 1.8-liter engine), I began to think about smaller engine options. FYI, Toyota hasn't offered anything smaller than a 1.5 in the U.S. since the 1984 Toyota Starlet.

Do Americans have an aversion to engines smaller than 1.5 liters?

Yes. I think that many but not all Americans intensely dislike smaller motors.

Americans like "butt dyno". They also like size, as I've seen repeatedly from the attempts at bullying my smaller car from cretins in trucks and SUVs. Especially solipsists who like to chatter on their cell phones while cruising in the passing lanes.

Until the pain of expensive gasoline changes behavior I don't see much hope. Certainly don't think that coercing people into buying them is going to help.

Gene

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by GeneW

<snip>
Especially solipsists who like to chatter on their cell phones while cruising in the passing lanes.
<snip>

Tough to be a true solipsist when you're talking to someone else....

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by SailDesign

Tough to be a true solipsist when you're talking to someone else....

In the strictest sense of the world you're right. When you're driving you're only "half there", half on the phone and half driving the car. This kind of selfishness is pretty solipsistic.

Gene

[Thirty-Nine]

Originally Posted by talnlnky

Hell yeah american's will buy less than 1.5L engines... they are called RX-7's.... and RX-8's (think the 8 still is a 1.3)

Crap... I'd love to have a yaris with a rotary engine.... tho... my MPG's would drop in half instantly.

If you'll notice, I put in italics that I didn't include the Mazda rotary engines, since they're niche ... and thirsty.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Thirty-Nine

If you'll notice, I put in italics that I didn't include the Mazda rotary engines, since they're niche ... and thirsty.

I think that they were discontinued in the US because the EPA emissions standards from 1990 or so on were WAY too tough for them.

They could also be bears to start in the winter. Recall a neighbor of a friend of mine who used to have to heat it up with electricity before he could start it. I think it was out of tune because it wasn't that cold back then.

The Wankel is a neat concept - a motor with a "linear" torque curve. The faster it goes the more torque it generates.

Had a neighbor who had a little Mazda truck. One day he did about 120mile per hour in it going through a local business district that was set at 45 miles an hour. Later, after a brief stint at drug dealing that included having his place and stash "ripped off", he finished college and became a Parole Officer.

Gene

[Thirty-Nine]

Actually, they still offer the rotary in the RX-8.

[TLyttle]

Yup, I drove Morris Minors for 30 years, and the largest engine was a 1098cc. I could get 59mpgImp and average just under 60mpg on long trips, performance I couldn't match until the Yaris came along. The Moggie was also a hoot to drive. Had it had the advantages of today's ignition systems and tires, it would still be a viable car, except for the goofy "safety standards" imposed by the governments. The Moggie needed some sophisticating, but the lack of weight and displacement were never a problem. Bring on the smaller engines, I'm on onboard!

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Thirty-Nine

Actually, they still offer the rotary in the RX-8.

I've been wrong about a half dozen times this week.... make that seven. At least this error didn't cost anyone any money.

Gene

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

Yup, I drove Morris Minors for 30 years, and the largest engine was a 1098cc. I could get 59mpgImp and average just under 60mpg on long trips, performance I couldn't match until the Yaris came along. The Moggie was also a hoot to drive. Had it had the advantages of today's ignition systems and tires, it would still be a viable car, except for the goofy "safety standards" imposed by the governments. The Moggie needed some sophisticating, but the lack of weight and displacement were never a problem. Bring on the smaller engines, I'm on onboard!

My Dad had one long ago. My Mom loved it. Dad hated it.

Gene

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

Yup, I drove Morris Minors for 30 years, and the largest engine was a 1098cc. I could get 59mpgImp and average just under 60mpg on long trips, performance I couldn't match until the Yaris came along. The Moggie was also a hoot to drive. Had it had the advantages of today's ignition systems and tires, it would still be a viable car, except for the goofy "safety standards" imposed by the governments. The Moggie needed some sophisticating, but the lack of weight and displacement were never a problem. Bring on the smaller engines, I'm on onboard!

Great cars, except for the kingpins. These would "go" with great regularity, usually while stiopping for a light or a stop-sign. Perfectly normal to see a moggy with one or both front wheels lying flat on the ground underneath it. We used to call it "Praying".

[TLyttle]

Yup, I had a couple of "prayers" in my day. It had to do with American-style maintenance (a very long 4-letter word); they had to be PROPERLY greased EVERY 2,000 miles or they would fail. I was working out a modification that would stop these failures, but sold the car before it got done...

[Loren]

Straying off topic, but... a lot of those "lubrication" problems on older cars can be cured by simply using a modern synthetic grease. (the same thing that allows all of our new cars to have "lifetime" lubricated bearings, that DO actually last for hundreds of thousands of miles)

[TLyttle]

Somehow, my response was lost...

yes, better grease works fine, IF you get to them soon enough, but usually it is too late. Seems to me the Spitfires had the same trunnion setup, and I have seen them worn to the point of failure as well. My cure (had I been able to use it) had to do with some simple machining, brass bushings, and a big nut...

[Loren]

I wondered if we were talking about the same crappy trunions. Yeah. Fresh parts and good grease are the answer. The factory actually specified OIL for them, which did the job, but, of course, leaked out in short order.

Remind me to check that when I get my car back from it's heart-transplant.

(Ironically, I'm replacing it's original 1.5 liter engine with a 2.0! But, the 2.0 will be far more efficient, in addition to making more power... modern engineering is good.)