rotrex supercharger

[uncleyaris]

What kinda coin are you talkin?

[Vanderkitten]

Your supercharger will rob more MPG from your motor than a turbo, and there is no way around it. It adds mechanical drag to you motor whether you're on the boost or not. You lose some rev-speed as well (my non-mechanical term for how fast your motor revs).

The Supercharger tends to be easier on the motors since the boost occurs at lower RPMS, and Turbo spools up later meaning you spend more time in high-revs and detonation is more likely.

IMHO, Superchargers are great for low-revving motors where a Turbo would not spool up and provide adequate advantage or heavy vehicles like any Mercedes or a truck.

I am not sure why the mini cooper S has a supercharger... seems like the wrong move to me... sign me up for the turbo!! After having one in my Jetta GLI 1.8T I'd do it again... but I can see the desire for quick lane changes and possilby autoX being smart applications for the SC.

Turbo v. SC... Shoot it out!! I'd pay to see that!

[eTiMaGo]

Originally Posted by Vanderkitten

I am not sure why the mini cooper S has a supercharger...

The new model Cooper S is now turbocharged

[Papamoon]

Originally Posted by Vanderkitten

Your supercharger will rob more MPG from your motor than a turbo, and there is no way around it. It adds mechanical drag to you motor whether you're on the boost or not. You lose some rev-speed as well (my non-mechanical term for how fast your motor revs).

A turbo really kills your low end due to all the back pressure of forcing all your exaust through a hole the size of a half dollar.

[Turbo&Auto]

Originally Posted by Papamoon

A turbo really kills your low end due to all the back pressure of forcing all your exaust through a hole the size of a half dollar.

This is total BS. With a properly sized turbo you can have s/c like response with....are you ready....top end performance too



This is my Accord with the old turbo setup. Its a DSM manifold with a Big 16G turbo. Full boost well before 3K. The car shredded tires coming out of turns no matter the gear. EASILY walk Mustangs!

[Carvin'07]

Originally Posted by Turbo&Auto

This is total BS. With a properly sized turbo you can have s/c like response with....are you ready....top end performance too

This is my Accord with the old turbo setup. Its a DSM manifold with a Big 16G turbo. Full boost well before 3K. The car shredded tires coming out of turns no matter the gear. EASILY walk Mustangs!

What size of block are you talking about? There is no way a 1.5L 1NZFE will make that much low end power and top end as well. We just cannot flow that much air...our F-series head is also a big limitation.

On a side note, with a Big16G you should have been able to make much more power. I had a DSM for 3 years and some of my buddies with the B16g were making close to 300 FWHP (disconnected centre diff) on an otherwise stock 2.0L engine. Looks like you had some airflow restrictions.

Carvin'

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by Carvin'07

What size of block are you talking about? There is no way a 1.5L 1NZFE will make that much low end power and top end as well. We just cannot flow that much air...our F-series head is also a big limitation.

On a side note, with a Big16G you should have been able to make much more power. I had a DSM for 3 years and some of my buddies with the B16g were making close to 300 FWHP (disconnected centre diff) on an otherwise stock 2.0L engine. Looks like you had some airflow restrictions.

Carvin'

Agreed. We aren't going to see much over 200 lb/ft of torque (if it even gets there) with this motor in a stock configuration. The good news is that you can run a small turbo that will spool well and it wont fall off on the top end like the chart above.

[sdmf]

well this looks like a job for nst if they decide to make s/c pulleys, that would toatally be sweet. i would be willing to sacrifice some mpg for some pulling power. im not looking to be fast and the furious yaris, just peppy power to get that umph factor, if the xa and xb can have a s/c dont you think we deserve one also

[Yaris Revenge]

A friend of mine at work had an old MR2 with a factory supercharger. He said it had an electronically activated "clutch" that allowed the supercharger to freewheel until the pedal was depressed to a certain trigger point. That was on a late 80's/early 90's model... shouldn't all superchargers behave this way by now? If they did, there wouldn't be any real "drag" on the engine during normal operation.

~YR

[Turbo&Auto]

I read in the first few posts that the Rotrex S/C is more efficient then a turbo. That can NEVER be true. It takes power to run it, hence its already less efficient.

For piping, but a universal piping kit on Ebay and piece it together. You can bring the pipes to a local weld shop to have them all welded together if you cant do that part. Its VERY easy to do piping, I've done quite a few cars myself with turbo's or custom CAI's.

[Turbo&Auto]

No FI guru's on here to debate huh????

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by Turbo&Auto

No FI guru's on here to debate huh????

I wouldnt call that big top end power, but from a driveability standpoint, that setup looks to be very good from the dyno chart. On the street that is what you want anyway.

How much boost were you running? It looks like you had a big 16G with a really small hotside.

[Carvin'07]

Hey jujufruit,

It is all strictly economics. Toyota is number 1 for a reason: they sell cars literally by the boatloads because people love them.

Car enthusiasts are a very small portion of their intended demographic. Sure, if they produced more G-series motors that would be great (!!!), however their cost/unit produced would increase because the total amount sold would decrease. Let's face it, Jane and John with their 2 kids do not want a 1.6L high revving, low torque motor that they have to shift 4 times to get to 65km/h. They want an 2.0L econo-slushbox that will get them to the Loblaws and do it quietly (i.e. below 2000 rpm with a torque-focused powerband) and without causing the neighbours to raise their eyebrows.

Yep Supra TTs and are great, but how many did Toyota sell??? Probably a whole heck of a lot less than they did Corolla sedans with the 4AFE.

Just my 2 cents for what they are worth!
Carvin'

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by Carvin'07

Yep Supra TTs and are great, but how many did Toyota sell??? Probably a whole heck of a lot less than they did Corolla sedans with the 4AFE.


Carvin'

I read somewhere that there were less than 8000 Supras produced for America from 93-97. Not sure if that is 100% accurate though, but seems resonable.

[uncleyaris]

I agree Carvin.

[Carvin'07]

Pin that against the current claim of 30 million Corollas ever produced. That's strict economics my friend! [ok, end Off Topic]

Carvin'

[sdmf]

yea my thread has been hijacked. wtf, all i wanna know is if can be done, and if yes how much will it cost. if you wanna talk engines make your own damn thread. thank you

[Carvin'07]

Originally Posted by sdmf

ok i was surfing the net and i stumbled upon this beauty. http://www.rotrex.com/ i saw some of the numbers this s/c and wow, its more efficient than a turbo, (maintainance, cooling, lifespan, etc.) the only problem is you have to make your own piping, the numbers are waay better than the blitz sc. anyone know how to do some mandrel bending?

Hey there,

Sorry for continuing the OT.

To directly answer your questions, yes it can be done with some money and determination. In Chicago, there should be loads of shops that can do mandrel bending. Look in your yellow pages at exhaust shops. Usually there are only a few around (mandrel anding machines are expensive), but they should be there. If not, you can always buy universal bends and silicone couplers off of ebay. Just make sure you get good T-bolt clamps to hold back that newly found pressure you will be making!

As others have indicated, the S/C route is a good option if you want moderate, low end torque increases, but limits ultimate the ease of future power upgrades.

You could have a pulled milled from stock aluminum, but that will cost you big bucks. You might want to try out an xA or xB (??) pulley, I can't remember which was mentioned earlier to see if it will fit our needs.

Cheers and good luck with your project.
Carvin'