Oil 5000 miles +

[ddongbap]

Originally Posted by GeneW

The US EPA has been leading changes in oil composition in the US. Possibly they are leading the EU or vice versa on this kind of change. Standards have been falling since 1990 for phosphorous content in oils.

The EPA wants reduce Phosphorous content in oils. Phosphorous reduces wear in "tight spaces" under starvation conditions, like in overhead valve assemblies. Phosphorous also "poisons" catalysts in catalytic converters, leading to their expiration. This annoys the EPA, which would like emission control systems to last up to and beyond 100,000 miles (160,000 klicks).

So the US EPA has been encouraging oil makers to shift to oils that contain other critical additives, such as Moly Di-sulfide. Will these substitutes work in the long term? Who can say? Molydisulfide is a great grease additive and dry lubricant, but oils are not dry lubricants and do other things besides lubricate.

Engine oil serves many functions in an automobile. Besides lubricating the crankshaft, bearings and inside walls of cylinders it also removes heat and combustion products. Which of these functions fails first? I do not know. I do know that Yaris do run kind of hot and do need protection.

I rarely go above 6,000 miles on synthetic. To me saving twenty or thirty bucks a year for oil and slightly raising the risk of reduced reliability is not worth it to me. I make a decent living and insist upon a reliable form of transportation, especially as I am out and about into the wee hours of the morning.

There is not even the awful practice of pouring oil down storm drains or burning it in incinerators to deter us today. Quite a few firms will recycle old oil, returning it to service. Castrol, for example, uses a lot of recycled oil. So to me pouring used oil into the tanks of Advance Auto or other firms does not cause me any worries.

We have a member here who achieved 300,000 miles of engine wear, apparently a lot of it at high speeds. He claims to have changed the oil every 5,000 miles. FWIW.

Gene

How much of the EPAs 'encouragement' is actually working?

[TheSilkySmooth]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Yes, I'm quite curious to know why the intervals are different.

One thing, longlife synthetic meets a chem-E definition of 'synthetic' in the EU, so you have grp iv-v blends over there that have MUCH lower residue over a 15km interval where a "big USA Name oil" SM/SL would be 'toast'. rest assured though, Your Redlines and some Amsoils would compare favourably to the energy conserving EU oils. The Eu ACEA spec can be manufacturer specific, and A3/B3 is very conservative for HTHS viscosity;BMW lost a whole bunch of engines running underspec USA oils over here and spec only ONE Castrol very high weight oil. But Dont worry, EU typical citizen microcar EU manufacturers and producers will soon be following API/ISLAC for lower emissions and their engineer will be pulling hair. See the ACEA A1/B1. In fact we are running a French Motul 8100 that meets SL and a1/b1 and I can say its not too great, so they are already in the dumpster on changes. It will take time and a lot of engine failures before this gets settled. I bet in 2-3 years you will see something in news about bad oils if a new "wonder chemical additive" doesnt come out to replace the "banned' Zinc phosphates (zddp). I need to studythis big advance that Castrol is touting. - Papa

[TheSilkySmooth]

I am curious to know if the EU spec vehicles and those sold in NZ and Australia have differing piston and journal clearances to utilise the more viscous oils for long life intervals. You can't specify 5w-20 and 15W-40 in the same engine regardless of ambient temps. The engine temp is mainly determioned by the coolant thermostat.

[trini_per4mance]

Originally Posted by genethekiller

I've always felt (and it's common knowledge) that oil is the lifeblood of the engine, and if anything, should be taken care of early and often.

like you said, "oil is the lifeblood of the engine". I have a yaris with over 300,000 miles on it. why? because I use synthetic oil and i still change 5000 miles or before. don't sacrifice your car's engine to save time or money or headaches! because in the long run it may cause you more time, money and headaches, if you damage the engine.

[nemelek]

Originally Posted by trini_per4mance

like you said, "oil is the lifeblood of the engine". I have a yaris with over 300,000 miles on it. why? because I use synthetic oil and i still change 5000 miles or before. don't sacrifice your car's engine to save time or money or headaches! because in the long run it may cause you more time, money and headaches, if you damage the engine.

Wow. That is 10,000 miles a month. (About what I'll drive the Yaris in a year) Almost 330 miles a day. Do you use the car for work? Or do you just have a real long commute? What if any thing has failed and needed to be replaced? How long do your brakes and tires usually last? Have you done any other service work besides oil changes?

[trini_per4mance]

Originally Posted by nemelek

Wow. That is 10,000 miles a month. (About what I'll drive the Yaris in a year) Almost 330 miles a day. Do you use the car for work? Or do you just have a real long commute? What if any thing has failed and needed to be replaced? How long do your brakes and tires usually last? Have you done any other service work besides oil changes?

nemelek, check my following topic: http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13471

[ztrack157]

Atleast no one here has tried the Ams 25k mile oil yet. I use it in my Diesel truck once a year changes though its 9 years old and has 4k more miles than my yaris

[churp]

I don't consider myself 'green' by any means, but (believe what you want on the longevity of the oil) if you change the oil at 15,000 miles the cost per mile (40 mpg / $1.90 per gallon / $25.00 for oil & filter) is $0.0491---oil change is 3.5 % of driving costs. At 10,000 miles oil change is 5.3%, and at 5,000 miles oil change is 10.5% of driving costs.

So.....If you believe 15,000 miles between oil changes is ok, You can save as much money or more than if you drive like a hypermiler. Or roughly you can drive an extra 500 miles for free if you extend your oil change by 5,000 miles (1,000 free miles if you change at 15k instead of 5k). Gamble at your own risk...my warranty is off now so I'm going for the 10,000 mile change.

[ddongbap]

I.. don't think cost is the issue here man.

[churp]

Originally Posted by ddongbap

I.. don't think cost is the issue here man.

If cost is not the issue ... change every 1,000 miles! Guaranteed that your engine will have the best benefit of clean oil.

The "facts" of oil performance are buried somewhere in reports by indpendant and not so independant labs. Everyone is free to pick the "facts" that they choose to go by.

In the 60's I changed oil every 3,000 and engines were still sludged up. Now oils are so much different....the EPA mandating changes in additives for green concerns, is the main source of reduction of oil's effectiveness (trade offs).

[ddongbap]

Are you even reading this thread?

[churp]

Originally Posted by ddongbap

Are you even reading this thread?

Sorta thought I was! The only reason to spend money changing your oil is to prevent spending a lot more money by changing your engine. Some people think 15k is fine for synthetics, and seems like someone mentioned an oil that claims 25k.

My warranty is up, I drive 30k a year, and my opinion is that I'll drive 5 to 10k before I change my synthetic oil. If you have a different opinion fine. Driving conditions vary for everyone, and that is a big factor. As far as 'factual' info on this, it's sort of like global warming, you will find supporting 'facts' however you think.

[TheRealEnth]

Well.. The best you can do is tally up info from various cars knowing how often they were changed on a continued basis and see what happens.

[ddongbap]

Originally Posted by churp

Sorta thought I was! The only reason to spend money changing your oil is to prevent spending a lot more money by changing your engine. Some people think 15k is fine for synthetics, and seems like someone mentioned an oil that claims 25k.

My warranty is up, I drive 30k a year, and my opinion is that I'll drive 5 to 10k before I change my synthetic oil. If you have a different opinion fine. Driving conditions vary for everyone, and that is a big factor. As far as 'factual' info on this, it's sort of like global warming, you will find supporting 'facts' however you think.

Not really. The entire argument questions the validity of changing your oil at 3000 miles. You can't really say that people here are debating oil change intervals just because of the cost issue.

IMHO, I don't think oils have much to do with the change intervals. If the oils meet the minimum requirement, it'll then depend on how well made the engine is.

Unless you're a Ferrari owner or something. Then that would be a different story.

My mom's Nissan Quest went with out an oil change for 150k miles. Thats right, 150,000 miles. Thing ran like crap. My buddy and I had done a engine flush, twice, changed the spark plugs, and it ran like new. It was epic.

Go VG30DE.

[Havana]

Here's my experience with oil changes for what it's worth (possibly nothing). FIY I have never used synthetic oils.
1986 Jeep Cherokee 289,000 miles at time of selling, 3K oil changes as recommended, never rebuilt or replaced engine, used many different brands of oil over the years.
1983 Mercedes 240D 394,000 miles at time of selling, 5k oil changes as recommended, no problems at all, used regular Castrol.
2000 Civic HB 222,000 miles at time of selling, 7k oil changes as recommended, no problems at all, always used standard Valvoline, still getting 38mpg when I traded it for my Yaris.
Based on my past experience, I think the Yaris will do fine with 5k oil changes. Recommended oil change intervals for passenger cars are always set within a much larger safety range. Remember it's a recommendation, your car will not self destruct if you take it to 5,001 with no oil change, or 10k or even 15K (though I wouldn't suggest trying it). The Yaris is a well engineered, solidly manufactured, quality machine and that's a big part of the equation that often gets overlooked. It's built to last if well maintained. Consider how many oil changes you will do for each 100k miles - 33 times if you change at 3k or 20 times if you change at 5k. Consider how much you spend for each oil change. I do my own and it costs me about $25 each time including filter. That's $500 for every 100k miles with 5k changes or $$825 with 3k changes. I am personally not convinced that the extra expense of the 3k change is warranted for the Yaris. Based on knowing many long term Toyota owners, I just don't see any otherwise properly maintained Yaris blowing an engine at 150k even 200k because someone did 5k changes instead of 3k. These are just my opinions, based on my own real world experiences. Change your own oil as you see fit. To each, his own.

[dallas]

Good info, some Euro mfg go as long as 40,000 km to an oil change. in North America the BMW LL4 spec is over 20,000 km change, but you have to use a ACEA (euro) oil to meet the standard. THe VW TDi diesel is hard on Oil and the drain is 15,000 km, Better base oils and additives allow the longer drain intervals. The problem is that Canadian and US gas contains Methanol/ethanol which is hard on the oil. I go 12,000 Km with Euro oil with no problems, but would recommend following Toyotas suggestions if you want warrantee.

Originally Posted by Loren

You have a good mechanic. Germans "get it". While Americans are still clinging to the "change your oil every 3,000 miles" that the oil companies have been feeding us for many, many decades and are hesitant to even go to 5k, the German car makers are going 10, 12, even 15k miles between oil changes.

Doing what is required to maintain your warranty is good, but once your warranty is up, recognize that even 5,000 miles is very conservative with a modern engine using modern oils. Even with conventional oil, I wouldn't hesitate to go to 7 or 8k, maybe even 10k. With good synthetic oil, 15k without question.

My Yaris warranty isn't anywhere near expired, and I've already decided that I'm going with a 15k interval. I'm about half way through it right now and my Mobil 1 looks just like it did when I poured it in. I figure if it's good enough to be the factory interval for the Brazilian-made engine in my wife's MINI Cooper, it's good enough for my Toyota.

[phenoyz]

can you use bmw genuine synthetic oil 5w-30?

[supmet]

I change at 5k if I have money, but usually go 6-8k on mobil 1 synthetic.

And all this talk about the great german engineers.. Don't get me wrong, I'd pick up an M3 if I had the money, but every person I've seen with a beemer drives the dealer loaner more than their car...