Good For New Buyers , A Rip Off For Owners

[RedRide]

The CFC progam is not designed/purposed to reward or punish anybody.

The main focus it to boltser the all important US auto industry and all the busunesses that depend on it and getting old gas guzzlers off the road.

The '"I got mine and if you don't have yours,...screw you" attitude is largely what got us into this mess to begin with.

[gokartride]

One can argue theoretical pros and cons all day, but in the end, I think it is a good program and a good time for it.

[Bob Dog]

The new money for the "Cash for Clunkers" program is being looted directly for the alternative energy programs, another give away to industry at the taxpayer expense. I bet the Senators and Congresspeople get a really nice stroke from the Auto Industry Lobbyists after this one

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

The new money for the "Cash for Clunkers" program is being looted directly for the alternative energy programs, another give away to industry at the taxpayer expense. I bet the Senators and Congresspeople get a really nice stroke from the Auto Industry Lobbyists after this one

Do you think that "alternative energy" money isn't being "targeted at big business"?

Go look up the US Climate Action Partnership - it's a "who's who" of big business. They're pushing "Cap and Trade" through Congress, possibly even putting some $$$ into the pockets of "undecided" politicians.

I heard that the bread for "Cash for Clunkers ver 2.0" came from some TARP or "recovery" slush fund set up by COngress.

How come nobody is discussing how this "cash for clunkers" is hurting working poor folks? You know, the folks who buy clunkers to get to work and back? Doesn't anyone think of them, or are they invisible because they don't have lobbyists in Congress?

Gene

[gokartride]

I wouldn't be surprised to see this program (or a program like it) pop up now and again. I've seen states trying to get at something like it before, generally for commercial equipment/trucks.

[advocate]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Doesn't anyone think of them, or are they invisible because they don't have lobbyists in Congress?

Gene

Everyone who doesn't have a lobbyist is automatically invisible. Welcome to Congress, where money matters as much as the vote count.

[eric81]

The $2 billion that they added has to be voted on yet, so we are waiting. They actually DID run out of money, though only 1/10th of it is actually spent. There are enough requests in to spend the entire $1 billion, they just haven't rebated the money yet, so everyone is waiting to get the money. Toyota was one of the ONLY dealerships here in Pueblo to continue to do the Program on Saturday, because we got special permission, but now NO ONE is allowed to do it anymore, at least until the rest of the money is voted on and put in.

And I know Toyota is not a US company, but they are built here, parts and all, so it is helping the US just as much (if not more) than buying an "american made" car. A lot of the american brands are at least partially built in Mexico or Canada. My cousin works for GM, and he tells me all about the stuff they do. He works in Detroit Michigan. Yes, I did do my research. I am a Toyota salesman, and it's my job to know these things. I work In Pueblo, Colorado. Come on in and ask for Eric, and I will be happy to help.

[tuckevalastin]

Except that the US government has invested $billions in the Big 3 which won't be repayed if they don't sell enough vehicles. So selling American cars benefits the US more than selling Toyotas not matter where Toyotas are made.

[Altitude]

Originally Posted by tuckevalastin

Except that the US government has invested $billions in the Big 3 which won't be repayed if they don't sell enough vehicles. So selling American cars benefits the US more than selling Toyotas not matter where Toyotas are made.

Sure, if the Gov. limited the program to US cars only then the US industry would benefit more, but don't overlook the benefits to be had for all of those Americans that work for Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Suzuki, Kia etc. etc.

This program puts money in the hands of anyone who works for the auto industry here in America *regardless* of the auto makers country of origin. So now those dealers, service dept workers, truckers, distributors, parts dealers etc.etc. can go spend that cash to further stimulate the economy. - as opposed to getting laid off because no one is buying.

[Yaris Hilton]

Cleaner air is not a part of this program. Possibly emissions may be reduced as a side effect. But the criteria for eligible vehicles are based solely on fuel consumption as estimated by the EPA, not emissions. And the requirements for improved mileage to get the payment are rather modest. Why don't they just be honest about it and "give" a bonus to us (out of our tax dollars) to buy a new car? A bailout for the carmakers and dealers is all this is about.

[tuckevalastin]

Originally Posted by Altitude

Sure, if the Gov. limited the program to US cars only then the US industry would benefit more, but don't overlook the benefits to be had for all of those Americans that work for Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Suzuki, Kia etc. etc.

This program puts money in the hands of anyone who works for the auto industry here in America *regardless* of the auto makers country of origin. So now those dealers, service dept workers, truckers, distributors, parts dealers etc.etc. can go spend that cash to further stimulate the economy. - as opposed to getting laid off because no one is buying.

Don't overlook the benefits to all US citizens of having GM and Chrysler sell more cars.

[Bob Dog]

It does aggravate me that to see perfectly funtional vehicles that could have served so many of purposes destroyed like so much garbage: the commuter vehicles of the poor, the vehicles that are used by recyclers to haul scrap, the mobile homes of the homeless, the winter beaters people who live in regions where salt and winter would otherwise destroy newer cars, trucks used to haul firewood and other destructive agricultural comodities, the work trucks of handymen and andscapers.The list goes on and on. Let them drive new vehicles sounds like let them eat cake to me. As a frugal person who believes in getting all the useful life out of manufactured goods, it disgusts me. I sure people in the third world are looking at this an saying wtf are they thinking.

[Zaphod]

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

It does aggravate me that to see perfectly funtional vehicles that could have served so many of purposes destroyed like so much garbage: the commuter vehicles of the poor, the vehicles that are used by recyclers to haul scrap, the mobile homes of the homeless, the winter beaters people who live in regions where salt and winter would otherwise destroy newer cars, trucks used to haul firewood and other destructive agricultural comodities, the work trucks of handymen and andscapers.The list goes on and on. Let them drive new vehicles sounds like let them eat cake to me. As a frugal person who believes in getting all the useful life out of manufactured goods, it disgusts me. I sure people in the third world are looking at this an saying wtf are they thinking.

I agree completely, people are saying this is a good thing since they're putting more efficient cars on the road and that's true, but they're not taking into consideration the amount of energy and resources used to build the replacement vehicles.

It's just an excuse to spend more money. The real solution is to allow gas prices to rise over time, which in turn increases demand for more efficient vehicles.

[Yaris Hilton]

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

It does aggravate me that to see perfectly funtional vehicles that could have served so many of purposes destroyed like so much garbage: the commuter vehicles of the poor, the vehicles that are used by recyclers to haul scrap, the mobile homes of the homeless, the winter beaters people who live in regions where salt and winter would otherwise destroy newer cars, trucks used to haul firewood and other destructive agricultural commodities, the work trucks of handymen and landscapers.The list goes on and on. Let them drive new vehicles sounds like let them eat cake to me. As a frugal person who believes in getting all the useful life out of manufactured goods, it disgusts me. I sure people in the third world are looking at this an saying wtf are they thinking.

I agree completely. "Waste not, want not." I'm glad I don't have to watch 'em drain the oil out of the engine, fill it with sodium silicate solution, and run it till it seizes. A particularly barbaric way to kill a car.

I've got to get a little maintenance work done on my "clunker" before taking the family to the beach with it. It also serves as my "truck" with a trailer behind it, and my knockaround vehicle for going places like the rifle range where I don't want to take the shiniest, newest one. No way in blue blazing hell is the government going to destroy it for a $4500 discount on an overpriced new vehicle. But its retail value as a used car is $725, according to one of those online sites. Fine. I'm not planning to sell it anyway. As long as I can reasonably keep it fixed up, I'll run it till the wheels fall off and won't go back on.

[Shroomster]

Originally Posted by Yaris Hilton

As long as I can reasonably keep it fixed up, I'll run it till the wheels fall off and won't go back on.

psst. duct tape and super glue work wonders for when that time comes. just can't go much faster than about 17 m.p.h

[tuckevalastin]

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

It does aggravate me that to see perfectly funtional vehicles that could have served so many of purposes destroyed like so much garbage: the commuter vehicles of the poor, the vehicles that are used by recyclers to haul scrap, the mobile homes of the homeless, the winter beaters people who live in regions where salt and winter would otherwise destroy newer cars, trucks used to haul firewood and other destructive agricultural comodities, the work trucks of handymen and andscapers.The list goes on and on. Let them drive new vehicles sounds like let them eat cake to me. As a frugal person who believes in getting all the useful life out of manufactured goods, it disgusts me. I sure people in the third world are looking at this an saying wtf are they thinking.

I agree with that completely. What happens now to those who can only afford to buy "clunkers"? And those who make a living off of selling them? Sure every "clunker" in the country won't be destroyed but if all $3billion is used, over 600,000 of them will be destroyed. That's a major hit to those who use,buy, and sell "clunkers".

[RedRide]

Fact is, there is no "real" single solution that will solve the "problem".

The CFC program is just one facet of many things that need to be implimened.

The biggest problem IMO is we need to break the back of the (false) mentalty that gas guzzelers are better... a staus symble, etc.
If it takes a program like CFC to get the ball rolling, so be it as no one has come up with a better solution so far after all these years.

Let's not loose sight of the fact that the gass guzzling vehicle problem has become a national security/ major economic issue.

[2009Toyotoad]

Originally Posted by Bob Dog

New Yaris before Cash for Clunkers $13,500
New Yaris after Cash for Clunkers $9500 +1 POS
Used Yaris before Cash for Clunkers $9500
Used Yaris after Cash for Clunkers $6000-$7500 ?
and I was dumb enough to think the big screw might be over when the Repulicans left the white house FTS

Bob dog You are near sited and missing a few facts.

Used Yaris after the the cash for clunkers program sells 1 million cars $9,500

Used Yaris when gas prices creep back up to $4 / gallon $10,500

Short term projects yield short term results, on the car side. But cleaner air is worth waiting 6 months to sell a used Yaris