finally found the 5w-20 TSB...

[1stToyota]

I don't know why I was thinking your Yaris was about out of warranty

I guess I just assumed it was nearly out of warranty and you decided it was time to switch to 0w20

API is kinda important to me, and AutoZone had the Mobil 1 0w-30 for $6.95, so I bought 4

Blackstone labs will be doing both of my UOAs

If Mobil 1 tests out better than the PP 5w-30 I'll shop for it at WalMart next time.

[R2D2]

The Blackstone folks are great-exceptional customer service. They helped me out with a special need testing situation a while back on a HD rear axle.

My hunch is the M1 will do quite well in this app. Is it the new green cap AFE?

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by R2D2

The Blackstone folks are great-exceptional customer service. They helped me out with a special need testing situation a while back on a HD rear axle.

My hunch is the M1 will do quite well in this app. Is it the new green cap AFE?

Yes, Napa had the old SL 0w-30, but AutoZone had the fancy green cap SM 0w-30

I'm hoping the M1 does well, if not I'll stick with the $3.95 PP :)

[TheSilkySmooth]

I just had to dump Castrol 5w30 syntec BC the engine was so noisy that i though it was gonna blow. I have Rotella T 10w30 CJ4 in there now, and this is the BEST overall conventional oil ive used in the past 5 years - actually the only satisfactory one. Alot of our engines have different needs and mine will absolutely not tolerate light grade oil. Toyota recommends heavier oil (5w40, 10w40 for severe service, high speed driving and towing) in my owners manual not lighter. Since I drive hard, I will need the heavier oil to survive. I dont like engines that clak and tick and clang and dont rev hard to redline. With the thicker oil they are dead quiet and smooth and will have less crankcase fuel dilution - important with E10 "gasohol" usage. Just my dos centavos
P.S: Why does the TSB say in the Red box at the beginning of the TSB to "Use the oil grade on your fill cap" then say somewhere else you can use something else - If I had a warranty issue on 20wt oil - I would be afraid they'd deny due to wrong weight. Untill they send ME a supplement to my owners manual I would never run 20wt - the TSB are not for consumer/customer dissemination, only for dealer use.

[Lewis]

I wonder what the mpg differential is using the 5-20 versus the 5-30? Any one know?

[SilverGlow]

Originally Posted by Lewis

I wonder what the mpg differential is using the 5-20 versus the 5-30? Any one know?

1% to 2%....over 100,000 miles this adds up to over $100 savings in fuel...but more importantly, using 0w-20 means the engine will last longer over heavier oil, and in most conditions. See my post above for more reason on this.

[R2D2]

Ecomodder is a cool place-I find myself lurking there quite often!

R2

[R2D2]

Silky,

With all due respect if Dr AE Haas can run 20 wts in an Enzo and a Lamborghini I think a stock Yaris will do fine on it if it's a quality oil formulation. I bet the Enzo and Lambo don't mention 0W-20 or 0W-30 in there manuals either. :)
I thought you were initially pleased with the Syntec? I believe you had "padded" it with some 10W-40, correct? The noise you keep referring to-when is it occuring? My Yaris is a little noisy when "cold" but is very quiet when fully warmed up and the oil is at it's "thinnest". I have always used 20 wt so far and have heard rumors the factory fill was a 20 also (I have no proof for this yet). Engine loves to rev but rarely gets to as I putt around and gawk at my ecometer!

The Rotella is a nice oil but would make me uneasy during a NH winter! Sure, I think it will start fine but it may (rather loudly) protest. Hope it works out for you better than the Syntec-let us know!
R2

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Silky,

With all due respect if Dr AE Haas can run 20 wts in an Enzo and a Lamborghini I think a stock Yaris will do fine on it if it's a quality oil formulation. I bet the Enzo and Lambo don't mention 0W-20 or 0W-30 in there manuals either. :)
I thought you were initially pleased with the Syntec? I believe you had "padded" it with some 10W-40, correct? The noise you keep referring to-when is it occuring? My Yaris is a little noisy when "cold" but is very quiet when fully warmed up and the oil is at it's "thinnest". I have always used 20 wt so far and have heard rumors the factory fill was a 20 also (I have no proof for this yet). Engine loves to rev but rarely gets to as I putt around and gawk at my ecometer!

The Rotella is a nice oil but would make me uneasy during a NH winter! Sure, I think it will start fine but it may (rather loudly) protest. Hope it works out for you better than the Syntec-let us know!
R2

Mine's just the opposite; quiet at start up, but just a little noisy off idle in 1st gear when warm.

[TheSilkySmooth]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Silky,

With all due respect if Dr AE Haas can run 20 wts in an Enzo and a Lamborghini I think a stock Yaris will do fine on it if it's a quality oil formulation. I bet the Enzo and Lambo don't mention 0W-20 or 0W-30 in there manuals either. :)
I thought you were initially pleased with the Syntec? I believe you had "padded" it with some 10W-40, correct? The noise you keep referring to-when is it occuring? Hope it works out for you better than the Syntec-let us know!
R2

AFA oil weight - I think you have to look at each engine individually, though of course and engine "family" would be the larger set. My engine continues to have intermittent cold or hot excessive noise (bearing/valvetrain/t-chain) so I'm starting to wonder if I should drop the pan and see if ther is something around the pickup. The Fuel quality here is atrocious and I have gotten a tank with (assumed) way over 10% ethanol or somehow misformulated, given the car barely ran after the fill (87oct @ Mobil). I'm not sure if this poor fuel is also contributing to my oil woes. I am also dealing with an Exhaust backpressure issue whereas after tooling around for tens of miles, if I operate the car at WOT or near WOT merging on the interstste, I'm getting exhaust into the cabin (sulfur dioxide smell). I am currently pursuing through Toyota Customer Care and the dealer having the exhaust replaced with an upgraded hi-flow front pipe which was available to 3 dr owners in MY '06 and '07 throuh a TSB you can view elsewhere on this forum. So adding all these factors in-toto appear to be killing just about ANY oil in my car. I hope the engine survives till I get these issues resolved - it's sounding worse every day. I have a jug of 0w-30 AFE on deck for sub 20 deg winter weather.

[R2D2]

1st,

You got me thinking about sampling the 5W-20 I've currently got in the car. It will only have about 2k on it but I still think it would be interesting to see. I've got a Schaeffer sample kit here (no TBN but its only 2k). I think I will sample it just as a starting point but honestly even if it doesn't look great I won't be concerned because the engine is so young. Should happen early next week.

R2

[R2D2]

1st,

I have the report back on the last (short!) 5W-20 fill from the Yaris.

2009 Yaris 1.5 L

Oil was Schaeffer's 7000 5W-20 with 1871 miles on it and 4974 on the car total at time of sample. Analysis by Schaeffer.

Copper - 3

Iron. - 7

Cromium- 0

Alum. - 7

Lead. - 0

Moly. - 329

Phos. - 963

Zinc. - 1115

Magnes. - 294

Calcium. - 2095

Sodium. - 8

Potass. - 3

Silicon. - 20

Antifreeze, water, fuel all nil.

Visc @ 100C. 8.07 (20 wt)

Oxidation % allowed 0

Nitration % allowed. 6

Looks good for such a young engine IMO. The next sample will be much more informative but we at least know nothing disastrous is going on.

R2

[craigq]

R2, are you going to post this on BITOG or can I?

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by R2D2

1st,

I have the report back on the last (short!) 5W-20 fill from the Yaris.

2009 Yaris 1.5 L

Oil was Schaeffer's 7000 5W-20 with 1871 miles on it and 4974 on the car total at time of sample. Analysis by Schaeffer.

Copper - 3

Iron. - 7

Cromium- 0

Alum. - 7

Lead. - 0

Moly. - 329

Phos. - 963

Zinc. - 1115

Magnes. - 294

Calcium. - 2095

Sodium. - 8

Potass. - 3

Silicon. - 20

Antifreeze, water, fuel all nil.

Visc @ 100C. 8.07 (20 wt)

Oxidation % allowed 0

Nitration % allowed. 6

Looks good for such a young engine IMO. The next sample will be much more informative but we at least know nothing disastrous is going on.

R2

WIX Oil Analysis Report for friend's Scion xD...still will be awhile before I get around to testing the M1 0w-30 in my Yaris, then I'll do another UOA using PP 5w-30 next summer.

OIL BRAND: Valvoline
OIL TYPE: Durablend 5w20
SAMPLE DATE: 08/20/2009
TIME ON OIL: 4,930 MILES
VEHICLE MILEAGE: 15,104

SPECTROCHEMICAL ANALYSIS (ppm)

SPECTROCHEMICAL ANALYSIS (ppm)

12 - IRON
0 - CHROMIUM
0 - LEAD
3 - COPPER
0 - TIN
2 - ALUMINUM
0 - NICKEL
0 - SILVER
13 - SILICON
13 - BORON
140 - SODIUM
10 - MAGNESIUM
2441 - CALCIUM
0 - BARIUM
789 - PHOSPHORUS
861 - ZINC
7 - MOLYBDENUM
0 - TITANIUM
0 - VANADIUM
0 - POTASSIUM

PHYSICAL PROPERTIES

<1 - FUEL (% VOL)
N/A - VIS @ 40 C cSt
8.52 - VIS @ 100 C cSt
0 - WATER (% VOL)
N/A - SOOT/SOLIDS (% WT)
NO - COOLANT

[R2D2]

Craig,

Yeah I'll post soon. I'll probably get hammered for changing it so soon but I like to get the break in metals out of there so I usually do several short fills early on.

I also forgot to mention this was a 3.5 qt fill with 7 oz of LC20 at time oil was installed + 2 oz at the 1k mark.

Just wanted a peek at what was going on after 1st Toyota got me thinking about it.

[SilverGlow]

If you are going for longevity for your engine, if you want it to last an absolute long time, then use 0w-20. Using 0w-20 will allow the engine to last longer then if you ran heavier oil.

This is because the lighter oil protects better during the time the engine wears the most: First 5-10 minutes of running after the first start in the morning.

At operational temperatures, there is a teeny tiny insignificant difference in engine wear between 20 and 30 and 40.

What kills engines is NOT running them at 212F on the freeway...what kills them is running the engines cold because cold means 10w-30 runs thicker then 0w-20 which means it circulates to the top and around all the internal engine parts SLOWER then 0w-20, and means more wear during the time engines wear the fastest: first 5-10 minutes of running for the day.

If you really know oil, understand how it works, you will see this is true. If you don't understand, you will have this dillusion that thicker protects better.

The only time you want to run the really thick stuff (40 weight for example) is if you are running hard, fast (racing or uphill under termendous load), and for long periods of time, in very hot weather. But for most of us, this is the exception and not the rule.

If you want your engine to last it's absolute longest, go 20 weight over 30 or heavier.

[TheSilkySmooth]

Originally Posted by SilverGlow

If you are going for longevity for your engine, if you want it to last an absolute long time, then use 0w-20. Using 0w-20 will allow the engine to last longer then if you ran heavier oil.

This is because the lighter oil protects better during the time the engine wears the most: First 5-10 minutes of running after the first start in the morning.

At operational temperatures, there is a teeny tiny insignificant difference in engine wear between 20 and 30 and 40.

What kills engines is NOT running them at 212F on the freeway...what kills them is running the engines cold because cold means 10w-30 runs thicker then 0w-20 which means it circulates to the top and around all the internal engine parts SLOWER then 0w-20, and means more wear during the time engines wear the fastest: first 5-10 minutes of running for the day.

If you really know oil, understand how it works, you will see this is true. If you don't understand, you will have this dillusion that thicker protects better.

The only time you want to run the really thick stuff (40 weight for example) is if you are running hard, fast (racing or uphill under termendous load), and for long periods of time, in very hot weather. But for most of us, this is the exception and not the rule.

If you want your engine to last it's absolute longest, go 20 weight over 30 or heavier.

Have any studies to back this up? Just read on BTIOG that Engine wear is 5-7X higher during acceleration, then levels off. 5w-20 IS more stable than 5w-30 - a terrible multigrade. If the engine can run 5w-20 - run it. Fords seem to work well on 20wt. I wouldnt run it if there is excessive noise present on a warm motor - my 1nzfe is very noisey on a thin 5w-30 like syntec - so I am afraid of the 5w-20. Plus my fill cap says 5w-30 SL. Per the TSB, 5w-30 is the weight you HAVE to use.
-
Aside: You need lube to get up in the ring pack and stay on the wear areas. This is NOT PAO group iv synthetic, a terrible lubricant but with good cold flow properties. So oil base stock magic makes a diff too. Conventional is better and most 20wt-er's swear by Grp II+ motorcraft SS.

[SilverGlow]

Originally Posted by TheSilkySmooth

Have any studies to back this up? Just read on BTIOG that Engine wear is 5-7X higher during acceleration, then levels off. 5w-20 IS more stable than 5w-30 - a terrible multigrade. If the engine can run 5w-20 - run it. Fords seem to work well on 20wt. I wouldnt run it if there is excessive noise present on a warm motor - my 1nzfe is very noisey on a thin 5w-30 like syntec - so I am afraid of the 5w-20. Plus my fill cap says 5w-30 SL. Per the TSB, 5w-30 is the weight you HAVE to use.
-
Aside: You need lube to get up in the ring pack and stay on the wear areas. This is NOT PAO group iv synthetic, a terrible lubricant but with good cold flow properties. So oil base stock magic makes a diff too. Conventional is better and most 20wt-er's swear by Grp II+ motorcraft SS.

My Yaris engine sounds the same no matter if I use 0w-20, or 5w-20, or 5w-30. The only sound difference I have found were between different brand of oil filter.

Synthetic oil is better then any and all conventional because synthetic is less prone to (1) shearing, and (2) oxidation. For longevity purposes, I'd prefer synthetic....however, if one only uses conventional, this engine will still last a heck of a long time...also, I don't know of a conventional oil that provides 0w weight.