Fuel Economy

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by Astroman

Doesn't all that shorten the life of your starter though?

That it does, but a new starter - which I can install myself - costs about $40. FAS'ing saves me more than that in fuel costs each month.

I don't expect it to be much of a problem in the future, though. Most starters used by Toyota are good for around 17,000 uses, which should last me about 3 or 4 years. I'm still on the stock starter and it's 7 months old now

[adamschneider]

After owning my Yaris for 3 months now (AT liftback), it seems my gas mileage is very consistent: I get about 34 MPG in the city and 40 MPG on the highway.

(For you north-of-the-border folks, that's 6.92 L/100km city and 5.88 L/100km highway.)

[ECHOKnight2000]

Originally Posted by BailOut

Although every change I've made added to my MPG numbers by far and away the largest item was FAS. If the engine isn't running it isn't using fuel. That's as MPG-friendly as it gets.

To give you an example of how FAS works for me let me tell you how I drive home through my neighborhood. Keep in mind that the higher tire pressures I run really help with decreasing rolling resistance, so I can coast much farther without losing much speed than someone running their tires at 32 PSI.

I've already been FAS'ing long before my exit from the highway, so when I get to the bottom of the off-ramp I brake at the light, which is usually red. I wait for the traffic to pass and once I see an opening I start the engine and lightly accelerate to the speed limit of 45 MPH, unless the next light a short distance away is red in which case I only accelerate to 10 MPH and then FAS again.

Once I reach 45 MPH I FAS and coast the next 3/8 mile to the turn onto the avenue that goes to my subdivision, and continue the FAS through my left turn onto that road. Once I'm on the avenue I can see that shitty light at the Starbucks/Home Depot complex, and if it's red I just keep coasting at like 10 MPH while I time the green. Once it's getting close to green, or of it was green to begin with, I start the engine back up and lightly accelerate to 35 MPH, then FAS the next 3/8 mile to a stop sign.

As I brake at the stop sign I start the engine up just as it's my turn to traverse the 3-way intersection, then accelerate back up to 45 MPH again. From this point I go into my last FAS for a total of a 1/2 mile that goes to my entrance road into my subdivision, then has an immediate left, then a right 100m later, then 100m to my house, finished by a left turn and a 7-9 MPH coast right up the driveway and into my garage (the trick is to start the garage door opening from a ways back).

The total distance driven in this scenario is about 1.5 miles containing moderate traffic, 3 lights and a stop sign, but my engine was only turned on for about 3/8 mile of it despite me keeping up decently with the traffic patterns.

Wow that's intense! Isn't there concern for safety? Like what if you have to suddenly accelerate or whatever? Also in some situations you have to accelerate hard for "safety" reasons meaning to get out of the way or get in a lane, knnow what I mean? Even if your going on the on-ramp for the highway you have to accelerate even faster than gradual sometimes for "safety" of you and others so they don't rear-end you or have to slow way down and almost rear end you. Also, how do you deal with rush hour driving like that and impatient people? Tailgaters? I hate rush hour cause well, its rush hour and it kills my mileage! And I know that's for any car. Sure there are techniques but still.
I'm NOT bashing you or putting you down, just curious how you deal with it. Mileage is important to me as well but I'm not as cautious as you are.
But keep up the good work mileage king!

[bogey mo]

i agree man..thats just waaaay too much..buy a scooter!!!

[BailOut]

No worries at all, ECHOKnight2000. I'm always happy to discuss these things.

Originally Posted by ECHOKnight2000

Isn't there concern for safety? Like what if you have to suddenly accelerate or whatever?

If you pay attention to the world around you there is never a need for anything like that.

Originally Posted by ECHOKnight2000

Also in some situations you have to accelerate hard for "safety" reasons meaning to get out of the way or get in a lane, knnow what I mean?

No, I don't know what you mean. hehe In more than 20 years of driving on 4 continents I have never experienced that. It comes back to paying attention to the world around you and planning ahead.

Originally Posted by ECHOKnight2000

Even if your going on the on-ramp for the highway you have to accelerate even faster than gradual sometimes for "safety" of you and others so they don't rear-end you or have to slow way down and almost rear end you.

Ummm... no. As long as I am doing the speed limit, or close to it, by the time we reach the merge point we're all perfectly OK. If someone behind me is unhappy about that they'll just have to get over it. If they rear-end me they are automatically at fault in my State, and I get some free work done on the Yaris. I am not here to help other people waste fuel and create extra emissions by aiding them in their aggressive driving.

Originally Posted by ECHOKnight2000

Also, how do you deal with rush hour driving like that and impatient people? Tailgaters?

For me rush hour is no different than any other time of day as we're all still on the same roads going the same places... there's just more of us. Impatient people are not my problem as their impatience will only get them home 3 seconds faster, and their impatience is one of the pure indicators of everything that's gone wrong with drivers today.

Tailgaters are usually not a problem for me as I live in the right-hand lane but they sure are an odd breed as they do things that make no sense at all. They tailgate me even in the right lane whether I'm doing 10 over the limit, the limit, or 10 under the limit. As such I've learned to just ignore them for the most part, but if I get one on me that's really aggressive about it I simply take my foot off the throttle and gradually slow down to about half the speed limit. That gets them to change lanes every time.

I also get the occasional tailgater on Mount Rose which is a very dangerous and intensive 2-lane highway, meaning only 1 lane in each direction. The speed limit on the mountain is 50 MPH and that's exactly what I do both up it and down it. Some folks like to think of this highway as a race track and are most unhappy with doing the speed limit but that's a problem between them and the Nevada Department of Transportation as far as I'm concerned. As such I never take it personal and I never pull out in the "slow vehicle turnouts" because I'm not going slow... I'm going the speed limit.


It's a different way of looking at and interacting with the world. Much safer, much saner, much more efficient and much more logical.

Just in case you're wondering, yes, I do get flipped off about once per month, and it's always by someone who is driving so aggressively that if a Police Officer were present they would go right past a citation to getting arrested and having their vehicle impounded.

I also get the occasional glare, but we all get that. hehe Window tint helps a bit with the evil eye types.

What's funny is once you become this attentive you begin to realize just how bad most other people actually drive. There's not a week that goes by where I don't see something that makes me drop my jaw and gasp in astonishment at the sheer stupidity and poor decision making. It would be funny if these people weren't putting us all in danger every time they get on the road.

[bogey mo]

i do agree with you..as someone who commutes across 3 major highways in the Greater Toronto Area....there are some astonishing things going on on the roads these days!!!

[ECHOKnight2000]

BailOut, THanks for the explainations! With the acceleration on the ramp, I too just gradually accelerate as there is no need to floor it. But that's because there is little to no traffic but when traffic is a little heavier I have to accelerate to merge or even if I'm getting off one highway to the next (think clover leaf). Especially if a big truck is barreling down and since I have to slow down going around a curve let alone the clover leaf I have to floor it to get back up to speed when I get to the highway that was under the one I got off on, so I don't get crushed. So do you experience that? I totally agree with you in observing the driving, even I do it too (observe) and sometimes appauled at what some people do. In fact not long ago when I drove up to the north western part of Minnesota the speed limit out of the city was 70 but I went 65...until my mom (which I was following) was going 80 if not more cause we were late for something which sucked not only my gas and money but just you know...hurt. Then on the way back I was so uncomfterable with my sister driving as she is not MPG conscience like I am so I was upright and concerned the whole time. I should have took over but...I don't know! But knock on wood according to my scanguage I got 47mpg which I've done better and could have done better that time but oh well!
Oh even if you are taking it easy sort to say, in rush hour there are some moments you have to slam on your brakes, tell me you come accross that, well even generally just for safety reasons. I know you are aware but you can only do so much...and plus people might cut in front of you and what not or the light will change and you realize you don't have time so you put the breakes on or the person in front of you puts the breaks on. And I know braking hard kills mileage so...but thanks for the explainations. I'll take what you said in consideration.

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by ECHOKnight2000

Especially if a big truck is barreling down and since I have to slow down going around a curve let alone the clover leaf I have to floor it to get back up to speed when I get to the highway that was under the one I got off on, so I don't get crushed. So do you experience that?

I experience the scenario you're talking about but it looks much different to me. If I'm going the speed limit, or at least close it, I don't care if there's a big truck bearing down. If he's speeding that's his problem, not mine, and with my blinker on well in advance I merge. If it's a scenario where he's doing the speed limit or less and we're going to be in the same place at the same time I just drop back and let him pass before I merge. At no point in any of that does my throttle pedal get depressed any more than the speed limit, or a reasonably lower speed, requires.

Originally Posted by ECHOKnight2000

Oh even if you are taking it easy sort to say, in rush hour there are some moments you have to slam on your brakes, tell me you come accross that, well even generally just for safety reasons. I know you are aware but you can only do so much...and plus people might cut in front of you and what not or the light will change and you realize you don't have time so you put the breakes on or the person in front of you puts the breaks on.

Again, this is where situational awareness comes in. No, I can't remember the last time I had to stand on my brakes in heavy traffic because I use the DWB (Driving Without Brakes) technique to avoid the jackrabbiting, and it requires constantly readjusting your forward speed to kind of pre-react to events that are unfolding up ahead before they become a problem. Yes, people often jump in front of me but I always have enough of a gap to absorb this without a problem.

I did have to stand on my brakes once last Winter, though, on Mount Rose. A tourist in an inappropriate vehicle (read that as a RWD rental SUV) lost control around a sharp and icy corner as they came downhill, and they were careening off the inside snowbank and outer guardrail like a pinball. They were completely out of control and their movement was so erratic that it was impossible to judge what the safest thing to do was so I just moved as far right against the snowbank as I could and then stopped as quickly as possible in order to eliminate my kinetic input in case we would collide. Luckily they missed me by a good margin and I was able to continue on my way unscathed.

Even then, though, because I was paying attention I had more time than I needed in order to come to a decision and implement it. I was in position and stopped from 35 MPH and just watching this fellow for a good 4 seconds before he passed me.

The same held true when my driver's door got hit this Summer. I didn't have enough time or space to fully get out of that guy's way after he failed to give me the right of way so I made a calculation and stopped where I thought he would only hit my door rather than scraping down the entire side of the car. It worked. My door got creamed but the damage was isolated only to the door. I saw him so early on that I had more than a full second to just sit there and simply watch him coming to hit me. heh

[voodoo22]

Originally Posted by bogey mo

i do agree with you..as someone who commutes across 3 major highways in the Greater Toronto Area....there are some astonishing things going on on the roads these days!!!

and so many of these dangerous situations could be avoided if the politicians would re-implement photo radar and speed limit the transport trucks to 90.

Why in Quebec they post a minimum of 60 and a max of 100, but in Ontario the OPP have told me I could be charged with impeding traffic if I go 90!

[voodoo22]

Originally Posted by BailOut

If I'm going the speed limit, or at least close it, I don't care if there's a big truck bearing down. If he's speeding that's his problem, not mine, and with my blinker on well in advance I merge. If it's a scenario where he's doing the speed limit or less and we're going to be in the same place at the same time I just drop back and let him pass before I merge. At no point in any of that does my throttle pedal get depressed any more than the speed limit, or a reasonably lower speed, requires.

I usually do what you do and gradually slow down more if a transport is bearing down on me. Once I've decided someone is tailgaiting me to such an extreme as to endanger my safety, I figure the only way to cancel out their stupidity is to increase the space in between me and the car in front of me to enough space for both of us to stop. This results in various gestures and horn blowing, but that's their problem. On the 401 it doesn't matter if you're going 100 or 150 you will get tailgated and I'm not exaggerating one bit.

The merging part is a lot harder in the GTA, because of the huge volume, but I find the best way to merge is to put my signal on a while before the solid line turns dashed and gradually start hedging towards the left side of the lane. Usually people will slow down or get out of the merging lane, because most people here are going to merge whether there is space or not and usually without signalling. Signalling seems to be a lost art around here. You can never signal too early or too much.

I think the whole key is to become confident in your ability to control traffic as much as possible. For example, one trick I use to feel less pressure from bad drivers about going a reasonable speed is to find a transport truck going 90-100km/h and follow them but stay well back to avoid rocks etc. I find people will usually not cut you off if they have to change lanes in a few seconds again to pass a transport, plus I'm also supplying merging drivers with a huge corridor where they see they can safely accelerate into.

[marcus]

drafting eh....hmmmm the only problem with that is stone chips!!!

[voodoo22]

Originally Posted by marcus

drafting eh....hmmmm the only problem with that is stone chips!!!

I stay really far back, I would guess about 3 transports worth, so far I only have one stone chip and that happened when a gravel truck went blowing by me.

[bogey mo]

i agree..merging in the GTA is impossible if you are going to try bailout's method of gradually accelerating..its actually quite dangerous not to be at about 110 or 120 when merging into hwy traffic in the GTA

[Shroomster]

Originally Posted by bogey mo

i agree..merging in the GTA is impossible if you are going to try bailout's method of gradually accelerating..its actually quite dangerous not to be at about 110 or 120 when merging into hwy traffic in the GTA

GTA=?

[bogey mo]

greater toronto area

[Pavel Olavich]

Originally Posted by bogey mo

i agree..merging in the GTA is impossible if you are going to try bailout's method of gradually accelerating..its actually quite dangerous not to be at about 110 or 120 when merging into hwy traffic in the GTA

I think BailOut runs a manual tranny, but with my auto liftback, increasing speed gradually, or shall I say too slowly will actually decrease MPG...there is a sweet spot...too fast is bad, too slow bad for MPG too.

As to getting on the freeways, I treat it like a game. The objective is to get onto the freeway in such a way as not to force the dude coming on behind you to slow or speed up. If the dude bearing down on you is going over the speed limit, sure he's breaking the law, but will you still think that if you're laying in a hospital bed? I think we need to be pragmatic here. Safety trumps the law every time.

When the dude is bearing down too fast as I merge on, I will match or exceed his speed, then once on the freeway, I will gradually slow down to the posted speed limit, forcing him to do same....doing this while getting on is not often safe IMHO, and could turn this whole endeavor into a kind of contest of wills; something I don't want to get into.

In other words, there are a hell of a lot of dead people who've died in traffic accidents eventhough they were in their rights....the Californiam DMV driving manual states that one should never insist on their right of way, and I agree with this.

[bogey mo]

i agree as well...safety before law...i am running a manual as well...i would never attempt to save a couple cents rather than get up to a speed where i can merge seemlessly into traffic

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by bogey mo

i agree as well...safety before law...i am running a manual as well...i would never attempt to save a couple cents rather than get up to a speed where i can merge seemlessly into traffic

bail out would because he is I would love to see BailOut drive in ATL... he would be ran off the road, litteratly. I do not know how many time I have seen trucks purposly run slow pokes off the road in ATL traffic... if you are not going 70-80mph (speed limit is 45-65mph), you are getting ran off the road by a semi, or a beatup hooptie that just don't care