Official Richard Holdener who wants to buy an intake manifold list

[richardholdener]

If we got enough owners to step up to the mid-range version (I will post power grpahs tonight), the I could do a production run of those as well and you guys could choose. This could only be realistic if we got another list filled for those wanting mid-range version. Let me know what you guys think.

Originally Posted by WolfWings

Bingo. My car's a DD that sees use at autocross, and my biggest wish is more grunt around the 2500-4000rpm range, since it's either stay in 2nd and go way up and down the RPM scale from 2000-redline as I go through the course, or bash my poor transmission to cinders slamming in and out of 1st gear ten or more times in a single 45-second run as I go in and out of corners. Even with my decent rev-matching, it's rough on the transmission.



Oh, I make no bones about complimenting this intake, it's wonderful looking for those that can hit open track day or for playing around on the highway where you can really unwind the decent legs on this motor. But for my particular performance-improvement goals (avoiding downshifting to 1st gear to deal with sub-25mph corners) it doesn't look like it would help that much compared to what I remember of the mid-range graph that had everything shoved about 500rpm to the left for HP, so torque was a notch higher down across the full low-range. Or was that some other dyno graph unrelated to any of these intakes?

[cali yaris]

The difference was so small between the two designs, it really couldn't be a factor whether to buy one or not, IMO.

[blacksandiegovitz]

Add me too the list man , I down to buy one !

[cali yaris]

woo hoo, yeah!!

[PETERPOOP]

I think he said somewhere that this manifold will show gains after 2500rpms....

[blacksandiegovitz]

Originally Posted by PETERPOOP

I think he said somewhere that this manifold will show gains after 2500rpms....

I was very impressed with the dyno chart for the manifold . Looks pretty smooth at low rpms not a huge gain , but thats to be expected with a big smim , they're pretty much about top end power . On high rpms this thing looks killer, like 20+ hp and tq thats nice . I was pretty set on the blitz Sc kit , but the gains with the manifold are very close at a fraction of the cost, and the fact that you can run this manifold with a set of underdrive pulleys is even better , as you can't run smaller pulleys with the blitz supercharger . Im looking foward to the finished manifold, should be great.

[PETERPOOP]

underdrive pulley, intake manifold, then turbo. oh yes it will be nice

[cali yaris]

the really juicy stuff should kick in at 4K+ RPM, which is a territory that a lot of "point A to point B" folks don't usually tread under.

ah but they should -- the car is made for it!

[PETERPOOP]

heck yah. It's going to be great redlining this bad boy.

[TheRealEnth]

Yeah, what are these people talking about -laughs- this car is made for speed.... <3 But yeah this is a case of money. If i had 699 i would have been on the top of that list =(

[kou]

i am pretty sure that graph is a pretty stock yaris,so with other bolt-ons the power delivery will be different.and those jabs of tourqe at 2500,3500rpm. and yeah these little 4 bangers are made to rev.

[eTiMaGo]

Well, if I may share my 2 cents, I've had a lot of time to think about this conundrum...

As much as we want, we cannot expect any sensible improvement of low to mid-range torque with just bolt-on NA mods. You must realize that a 1.5L engine can only do so much. Sure, you could get higher compression pistons, a stroker kit and maybe some new cams, but AFAIK those also really come into their own at high RPMs.

The reason is, sadly, there is no replacement for displacement. You cannot expect the torque of a bigger engine, it's just not gonna happen. You won't see Pee-Wee Herman bench pressing 300lb, you won't see a 1NZ with V8 torque...

So, one must realize this intake manifold is not some magical end-all solution to more power. If the best results are a pretty sizeable increase of torque from 2500RPM onward, then I think it is correct for the manufacturer to maximize on this.

This means that yes, on the street, if you drive in a calm and "normal" manner, you'd never really see an advantage. This intake manifold will really come into its own where it is designed to, at high RPMs, so it will be of most use to those who really race their cars, be it on a track or autocross.
It was said in a previous post, or one that was lost with the hack, but this manifold could be compared to a "bolt-on VTEC", as it gives the engine the ability to keep revving far better than stock. And, as with VTEC, the love-hate relationship is that you have to keep the engine at high RPMs to get good power output from it.

If you really want more low-end torque, the most effective solution is more displacement. This is where forced induction comes in, as it can be considered "virtual displacement" (think about this... normal atmospheric pressure is what, 14psi? a turbo running at 7psi is thus forcing in 50% more of atmospheric pressure, thus giving your engine characteristics of one that is 50% larger, or 2.2L. Of course, this is a very rough generalization, kinda like giving steroids to Pee-Wee!). This is why superchargers excel in this area, they start shoving in more air as soon as the engine is moving, same thing with small, responsive turbos that may not create massive boost, but can start to supply it quite early.

There you have it... If you seriously want more low end torque, go for a small turbo or supercharger. Of course, it's $3000 vs $700, I think that's also an important reason why many are wishing for a "low RPM" version of the intake.

I'm in no way an engine expert, so feel free to pick apart what I've just written

[PHXDEMON]

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

Well, if I may share my 2 cents, I've had a lot of time to think about this conundrum...

As much as we want, we cannot expect any sensible improvement of low to mid-range torque with just bolt-on NA mods. You must realize that a 1.5L engine can only do so much. Sure, you could get higher compression pistons, a stroker kit and maybe some new cams, but AFAIK those also really come into their own at high RPMs.

The reason is, sadly, there is no replacement for displacement. You cannot expect the torque of a bigger engine, it's just not gonna happen. You won't see Pee-Wee Herman bench pressing 300lb, you won't see a 1NZ with V8 torque...

So, one must realize this intake manifold is not some magical end-all solution to more power. If the best results are a pretty sizeable increase of torque from 2500RPM onward, then I think it is correct for the manufacturer to maximize on this.

This means that yes, on the street, if you drive in a calm and "normal" manner, you'd never really see an advantage. This intake manifold will really come into its own where it is designed to, at high RPMs, so it will be of most use to those who really race their cars, be it on a track or autocross.
It was said in a previous post, or one that was lost with the hack, but this manifold could be compared to a "bolt-on VTEC", as it gives the engine the ability to keep revving far better than stock. And, as with VTEC, the love-hate relationship is that you have to keep the engine at high RPMs to get good power output from it.

If you really want more low-end torque, the most effective solution is more displacement. This is where forced induction comes in, as it can be considered "virtual displacement" (think about this... normal atmospheric pressure is what, 14psi? a turbo running at 7psi is thus forcing in 50% more of atmospheric pressure, thus giving your engine characteristics of one that is 50% larger, or 2.2L. Of course, this is a very rough generalization, kinda like giving steroids to Pee-Wee!). This is why superchargers excel in this area, they start shoving in more air as soon as the engine is moving, same thing with small, responsive turbos that may not create massive boost, but can start to supply it quite early.

There you have it... If you seriously want more low end torque, go for a small turbo or supercharger. Of course, it's $3000 vs $700, I think that's also an important reason why many are wishing for a "low RPM" version of the intake.

I'm in no way an engine expert, so feel free to pick apart what I've just written

I agree 100%

[CASTREX]

Teaser Pic.

This is the LS1/LS2 GM Manifold that Richard just finished for SEMA

Of course it doesn't look anything like ours but it shows the quality we can expect for the Yaris unit.

[richardholdener]

I probably shot myself in the foot for offering the mid-range manifold, but the comparison does deserve a little insight. Actually, it is possible to significantly increase the torque production at lower engine speeds using the proper intake design. The problem associated with this is that there is almost always a trade off in power at higher engine speeds. The intake is literally tuned to maximize torque production at a given engine speed. It may be possible to give big gains at 3000 rpm but it may also cost power at 5000-6000 rpm(menaing it may make less power than the stock intake). I doubt this is acceptable. I will run a few more tests on the mid-range version and see if there is a happy medium that is better than my previous results. Also I saw posts on difference between Hp & Tq, but in reality to the are mathematically related and any given torque value will have a corresponding HP value at a given engine speed. Tq is simply work or force and HP is that work or force applied over time. In a drag race scenario (or simple acceleration) the intake that will provide the best acceleration time is the one that offers the most average power over the rpm spread required. In the case of the Yaris, this means WOT at 4000 rpm to 6000+ rpm-except in 1st gear.

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

Well, if I may share my 2 cents, I've had a lot of time to think about this conundrum...

As much as we want, we cannot expect any sensible improvement of low to mid-range torque with just bolt-on NA mods. You must realize that a 1.5L engine can only do so much. Sure, you could get higher compression pistons, a stroker kit and maybe some new cams, but AFAIK those also really come into their own at high RPMs.

The reason is, sadly, there is no replacement for displacement. You cannot expect the torque of a bigger engine, it's just not gonna happen. You won't see Pee-Wee Herman bench pressing 300lb, you won't see a 1NZ with V8 torque...

So, one must realize this intake manifold is not some magical end-all solution to more power. If the best results are a pretty sizeable increase of torque from 2500RPM onward, then I think it is correct for the manufacturer to maximize on this.

This means that yes, on the street, if you drive in a calm and "normal" manner, you'd never really see an advantage. This intake manifold will really come into its own where it is designed to, at high RPMs, so it will be of most use to those who really race their cars, be it on a track or autocross.
It was said in a previous post, or one that was lost with the hack, but this manifold could be compared to a "bolt-on VTEC", as it gives the engine the ability to keep revving far better than stock. And, as with VTEC, the love-hate relationship is that you have to keep the engine at high RPMs to get good power output from it.

If you really want more low-end torque, the most effective solution is more displacement. This is where forced induction comes in, as it can be considered "virtual displacement" (think about this... normal atmospheric pressure is what, 14psi? a turbo running at 7psi is thus forcing in 50% more of atmospheric pressure, thus giving your engine characteristics of one that is 50% larger, or 2.2L. Of course, this is a very rough generalization, kinda like giving steroids to Pee-Wee!). This is why superchargers excel in this area, they start shoving in more air as soon as the engine is moving, same thing with small, responsive turbos that may not create massive boost, but can start to supply it quite early.

There you have it... If you seriously want more low end torque, go for a small turbo or supercharger. Of course, it's $3000 vs $700, I think that's also an important reason why many are wishing for a "low RPM" version of the intake.

I'm in no way an engine expert, so feel free to pick apart what I've just written

[WolfWings]

Originally Posted by sdyaris

Can someone repost the dyno's for the two intakes? I know there was a post on it pre-hack. Would be nice to have some reference again.

Originally Posted by richardholdener

I will run a few more tests on the mid-range version and see if there is a happy medium that is better than my previous results.

Since Richard's going to make newer tests, I think posting the old mid-range graph would just confuse matters.

[richardholdener]

Now that SEMA nonsense is over, I can get the Yaris and start making the production piece. I will keep you guys posted on the progress. I am starting with the high-horsepower version first and only if demand warrants, possibly follow up with mid-range.

Originally Posted by WolfWings

Since Richard's going to make newer tests, I think posting the old mid-range graph would just confuse matters.

[at3GG]

No thanks, I'll take your word for it