Extended cranking before starting - Page 2 - Toyota Yaris Forums

linny · 07-16-2013, 06:58 PM

I pulled and checked resistance on both the cam and crank position sensors and find the resistance to be within spec. Upon visual inspection I found that the metal end of the crank sensor has a bit of wobble from the plastic part of the sensor. I don't know if this is normal. The cam sensor metal end was tight to the plastic part..

I also find that I have a bit of an oil leak somewhere around the sensor as the plastic body of the sensor had a good amount of crud and oil that I wiped away before removing it.
Does anyone know if there should be discernible movement of the metal end of these sensors to the rest of the body?

jaimico · 07-18-2013, 03:31 PM

Hey guys I have to comment this, I have a 2008 yaris advance, with 150,000 km, and I used to have that problem from time to time, only when the car was starting cold, like first thing in the morning, or after the engine was cold, but after that it did started at first tray.

The battery is ok, all cables too, the starter was check, and I just replace the spark plugs with oem ones, and now it got worst, takes a bit longer every morning to start.

So I´m also looking for an answer for this, but no one so far

ivansky · 07-19-2013, 02:55 AM

I am a master technician. There are two things can cause the long crank problem. One is the idle air control valve, the other is the check valve in the fuel pump.
To check for the idle air control valve, you will need to start the engine cold in the morning. Crank the car while you put your foot on the gas pedal just enough to open the throttle a tiny little bit. See if your car starts right away.
To check for the fuel pump check valve, start the engine cold. Turn the key on for 3 seconds and then off, then turn back on right away then off. Repeat this steps for 3 times, then start the car normally. if the problem goes away, then thefuel pump check valve is leaking.

jaimico · 07-19-2013, 07:45 AM

I´ll keep you posted.

linny · 07-19-2013, 10:57 AM

Thanks ivansky! These are easy checks. I have tried a similar procedure to your fuel pump check valve test by turning the ignition on and off several times before cranking but I didn't pause as you stated. I'll try this tomorrow am.

vostorga · 01-01-2014, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linny

Thanks ivansky! These are easy checks. I have tried a similar procedure to your fuel pump check valve test by turning the ignition on and off several times before cranking but I didn't pause as you stated. I'll try this tomorrow am.

Hi Linny, did you fix the issue?

I am experiencing this problem as well...

jaimico · 07-19-2013, 02:18 PM

I try that one this morning, but it did not pause, so I´ll be trying the first one later today when and leaving from work.

JustPassinThru · 01-01-2014, 08:49 PM

Some Toys seem prone to this - my 96 Tercel does the same thing.

To which I say: if there's no other issues; and if the thing starts inside of ten seconds or so; and if the battery never runs down...better to leave it be.

Tearing into it will cost far more than the annoyance of no immediate start. You can crank the starter for up to a full minute before you start overheating it; and if after starting you run it more than a few minutes, you charge the battery back up.

linny · 01-12-2014, 01:56 PM

I am still having the problem except when the ambient temp is below zero (F).
I'm thinking my problem may be the coolant temp sensor because when it's below zero the car starts immediately. I plan to pick a new one up this week. I'll post what happens.
The test for a leaky check valve in the fuel pump made no difference nor did holding the gas pedal down a bit upon cranking.

Since my last post I did get a check engine code. It was cylinder #2 misfire. This has happened 2 times since fall. I plan to buy a new coil and swap #2 with the new one..

linny · 01-12-2014, 02:00 PM

Just passin, I agree with your logic. That's why I haven't done anything for months. But since it's gotten damn cold where I live and the symptom went away I think I'm close to pinning this one down..
That, and the long crank times have gotten old!!! -I'm not very patient with it any longer.

CTScott · 01-12-2014, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linny

Just passin, I agree with your logic. That's why I haven't done anything for months. But since it's gotten damn cold where I live and the symptom went away I think I'm close to pinning this one down..
That, and the long crank times have gotten old!!! -I'm not very patient with it any longer.

It's definitely not a normal behavior for the Yaris (I can verify this owning two 07's, two 08's and one 09). The only time I saw this behavior was on one of my 08s when the battery was on its last leg. We have seen sub zero F temps here over the past couple of weeks and even my two that have been parked outside lately have started with just the key bump.

Your lean code could also be due to a plugged injector or fouled spark plug.

JustPassinThru · 01-12-2014, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linny

Just passin, I agree with your logic. That's why I haven't done anything for months. But since it's gotten damn cold where I live and the symptom went away I think I'm close to pinning this one down..
That, and the long crank times have gotten old!!! -I'm not very patient with it any longer.

Is yours set up so that once you key the starter, the starter cranks (even if you release the key) until the engine starts or the key is turned to OFF?

Don't laugh - not many people know this. Higher-end Toys do this, or used to. A relative's Camray did this...a 2005. And my 2009 Yaris, surprisingly, was wired this way.

The 2009 had a premium interior package, including power windows and mirrors and remote keyless locks. Didn't have a remote starter; but if you just bumped the START position the engine would work through the start cycle.

My 2012 is not that way; but it also has manual windows and no keyless entry. I don't know how Yarises were chosen for it.

But I bring this up because you can maybe just bump the starter and let it do its thing. And if it takes eight seconds,

Try it. Turn it to start and then, don't turn it off, just LET GO the key. See if the starter stops or if it keeps cranking.

linny · 01-13-2014, 10:36 AM

Yes, mine does have the auto start once you bump and release the key.

One of the first things I did was to replace the battery and the plugs. I would think a dirty injector would show problems after starting. I have not done anything with the injectors. The motor runs as it always has since driving off the showroom floor. My problem is simply the extended cranking to start the engine.

linny · 07-16-2014, 12:12 PM

Sorry to bring up an old thread but want to give the final word as my issue has finally been resolved!!
Once it warmed back up where I live the extended cranking came back--the coolant temp sensor was for not..
I then checked fuel pressure and found it within spec.
I got some toyota codes from my innova 3160 on misfires, MAS rich,MAS lean, etc..

I finally gave up and brought it to our local dealer where they put it on their techstream or whatever you call the toyota scan computer.
They found that my injector #2 was leaking and causing a rich start.
They told me this was a common issue they've seen with the yaris and with the corolla.

So I spent a hundred some bucks on this education. Right now I feel pretty good about it. Maybe I'd have figured it out myself if I would have pulled the injector and manually cleaned and tested it..IDK.
Because I never noticed ANY performance issues in driving and at idle I really didn't give much thought to the injector. Live and learn then share!!

Lets Go Giants · 10-14-2014, 08:13 PM

I have a 2008 yaris and it's not turning over. It sounds like it wants to start but won't turn. The car broke down on the freeway and my thought was it was the fuel pump which i replaced. The car still wont start, I am looking for the location of the fuel pump relay but can not find it anywhere. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

CTScott · 10-14-2014, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lets Go Giants

I have a 2008 yaris and it's not turning over. It sounds like it wants to start but won't turn. The car broke down on the freeway and my thought was it was the fuel pump which i replaced. The car still wont start, I am looking for the location of the fuel pump relay but can not find it anywhere. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

The fuel pump relay is integrated into the body ECU (which is the under dash fuse box assembly). If you do some searching on here you'll find a thread where I give instructions on how to test its output and bypass it if it is bad.

If it is not turning over, then the fuel pump is not the issue. If it cranks by doesn't start then it could be.

10-14-2014, 08:13 PM	#15
Lets Go Giants I've made a post! Drives: 2008 Toyota Yaris Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1	2008 Yaris Fuel Pump Relay I have a 2008 yaris and it's not turning over. It sounds like it wants to start but won't turn. The car broke down on the freeway and my thought was it was the fuel pump which i replaced. The car still wont start, I am looking for the location of the fuel pump relay but can not find it anywhere. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

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07-16-2013, 06:58 PM	#1
linny Drives: '08 liftback mt Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mn Posts: 39	I pulled and checked resistance on both the cam and crank position sensors and find the resistance to be within spec. Upon visual inspection I found that the metal end of the crank sensor has a bit of wobble from the plastic part of the sensor. I don't know if this is normal. The cam sensor metal end was tight to the plastic part.. I also find that I have a bit of an oil leak somewhere around the sensor as the plastic body of the sensor had a good amount of crud and oil that I wiped away before removing it. Does anyone know if there should be discernible movement of the metal end of these sensors to the rest of the body?

07-18-2013, 03:31 PM	#2
jaimico Drives: yaris advance Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: pty Posts: 62	Hey guys I have to comment this, I have a 2008 yaris advance, with 150,000 km, and I used to have that problem from time to time, only when the car was starting cold, like first thing in the morning, or after the engine was cold, but after that it did started at first tray. The battery is ok, all cables too, the starter was check, and I just replace the spark plugs with oem ones, and now it got worst, takes a bit longer every morning to start. So I´m also looking for an answer for this, but no one so far

07-19-2013, 02:55 AM	#3
ivansky I've made a post! Drives: 2007 yaris hatch back Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: LA Posts: 1	I am a master technician. There are two things can cause the long crank problem. One is the idle air control valve, the other is the check valve in the fuel pump. To check for the idle air control valve, you will need to start the engine cold in the morning. Crank the car while you put your foot on the gas pedal just enough to open the throttle a tiny little bit. See if your car starts right away. To check for the fuel pump check valve, start the engine cold. Turn the key on for 3 seconds and then off, then turn back on right away then off. Repeat this steps for 3 times, then start the car normally. if the problem goes away, then thefuel pump check valve is leaking.

07-19-2013, 07:45 AM	#4
jaimico Drives: yaris advance Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: pty Posts: 62	I´ll keep you posted.

07-19-2013, 10:57 AM	#5
linny Drives: '08 liftback mt Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mn Posts: 39	Thanks ivansky! These are easy checks. I have tried a similar procedure to your fuel pump check valve test by turning the ignition on and off several times before cranking but I didn't pause as you stated. I'll try this tomorrow am.

07-19-2013, 02:18 PM	#7
jaimico Drives: yaris advance Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: pty Posts: 62	I try that one this morning, but it did not pause, so I´ll be trying the first one later today when and leaving from work.

01-01-2014, 08:49 PM	#8
JustPassinThru Drives: No more Yaris Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Montana Posts: 180	Some Toys seem prone to this - my 96 Tercel does the same thing. To which I say: if there's no other issues; and if the thing starts inside of ten seconds or so; and if the battery never runs down...better to leave it be. Tearing into it will cost far more than the annoyance of no immediate start. You can crank the starter for up to a full minute before you start overheating it; and if after starting you run it more than a few minutes, you charge the battery back up.

01-12-2014, 01:56 PM	#9
linny Drives: '08 liftback mt Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mn Posts: 39	I am still having the problem except when the ambient temp is below zero (F). I'm thinking my problem may be the coolant temp sensor because when it's below zero the car starts immediately. I plan to pick a new one up this week. I'll post what happens. The test for a leaky check valve in the fuel pump made no difference nor did holding the gas pedal down a bit upon cranking. Since my last post I did get a check engine code. It was cylinder #2 misfire. This has happened 2 times since fall. I plan to buy a new coil and swap #2 with the new one..

01-12-2014, 02:00 PM	#10
linny Drives: '08 liftback mt Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mn Posts: 39	Just passin, I agree with your logic. That's why I haven't done anything for months. But since it's gotten damn cold where I live and the symptom went away I think I'm close to pinning this one down.. That, and the long crank times have gotten old!!! -I'm not very patient with it any longer.

01-13-2014, 10:36 AM	#13
linny Drives: '08 liftback mt Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mn Posts: 39	Yes, mine does have the auto start once you bump and release the key. One of the first things I did was to replace the battery and the plugs. I would think a dirty injector would show problems after starting. I have not done anything with the injectors. The motor runs as it always has since driving off the showroom floor. My problem is simply the extended cranking to start the engine.

07-16-2014, 12:12 PM	#14
linny Drives: '08 liftback mt Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mn Posts: 39	Sorry to bring up an old thread but want to give the final word as my issue has finally been resolved!! Once it warmed back up where I live the extended cranking came back--the coolant temp sensor was for not.. I then checked fuel pressure and found it within spec. I got some toyota codes from my innova 3160 on misfires, MAS rich,MAS lean, etc.. I finally gave up and brought it to our local dealer where they put it on their techstream or whatever you call the toyota scan computer. They found that my injector #2 was leaking and causing a rich start. They told me this was a common issue they've seen with the yaris and with the corolla. So I spent a hundred some bucks on this education. Right now I feel pretty good about it. Maybe I'd have figured it out myself if I would have pulled the injector and manually cleaned and tested it..IDK. Because I never noticed ANY performance issues in driving and at idle I really didn't give much thought to the injector. Live and learn then share!!