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06-25-2007, 07:08 AM | #163 | |
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Thanks WRBlue for correcting me....1970 was when the compression ratio dropped in the US....along with performance.
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06-25-2007, 08:00 AM | #164 |
vroom vroom
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well.. I filled up today, just for experimentation's sake, with 95 RON ethanol mix fuel. It's actually a good bit cheaper than 91.
Although, my methodology will be flawed, as I immediately took a (relatively) long drive. In my normal driving, I will see one bar drop after about 50-55km, but this is after a few days of short trips, after this one long trip (almost 100km), the bar dropped at around 80km into the tank. I drove at a steady 110-130km/h the whole way, as I had a passenger I could not really rev her up and see how the higher octane may affect the high RPM characteristics... I'll report more once I have better information to share
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06-25-2007, 03:40 PM | #165 | |
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They're not telling you to run higher octane... They're just putting the RON in brackets because the entire world except north america uses RON to measure octane. In NA our pumps are labled with the average of the RON and MON measurements, which is generally 4 or 5 points lower. 87 octane gasoline in north american is 91 RON.
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06-25-2007, 06:03 PM | #166 | |
Banned
Drives: 2007 Yaris LB Join Date: Mar 2007
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06-25-2007, 06:59 PM | #167 |
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Drives: 07 Polar White Yaris Sedan 5M Join Date: Jul 2006
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My other rides: 2003 Honda Civic LX Coupe 5M- S/C K24 w/ LSD coming soon! 1999 Honda Civic EX Coupe 5M w/ B18 powaa 1985 Toyota Celica GTS Coupe 5M- track whip http://www.importlounge.com |
06-25-2007, 07:00 PM | #168 | |
der Zeck
Drives: '05 Audi A4 1.8t quattro Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
so the higher octane combined with vvt-i will not change fuel econ? I ALWAYS get better mpg with premium fuel than 87... the only peple that deny the fact are the ones that have not tried it
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06-25-2007, 07:00 PM | #169 |
der Zeck
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06-25-2007, 07:01 PM | #170 |
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Same place I found this one...
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06-25-2007, 07:26 PM | #171 |
der Zeck
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did you get ahold of his family photo's?
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06-25-2007, 07:29 PM | #172 |
Parallel Parking Pro
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I'm not taking sides, just relating personal experience.
Over here we have four grades of fuel at the service station, 92, 95, 98 and 98 Premium. Each indicates a RON (which I understand to be different from the US). 98 Premium reputedly is the most "powerful" due to additional chemicals that boost power as well as clean up the engine (note that it is still listed as 98 RON). Of the four, the only fuel that I have not sampled is RON 92. The other three I have tried, and found that 98 generally provides slightly better mileage than 95, although the price difference does not justify the mileage gained. 98 Premium is supposed to "burn" faster, therefore its mileage is actually poorer than regular 98 fuel. However it does seem to feel the most powerful of the three, having more eager throttle response and the engine sounding smoother.
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06-25-2007, 07:40 PM | #173 |
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06-25-2007, 08:00 PM | #174 |
Parallel Parking Pro
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Wouldn't a higher octane allow the engine to increase its timing and make more power, which means that less fuel is needed to maintain a given speed?
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06-25-2007, 08:47 PM | #175 |
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Engine's don't detect the octane of fuel... They just retard the timing if they detect knocking. Without doing some ECU tuning, the timing will always be set to or below (if knocking is present) whatever toyota engineers pre-programmed it to be based on engine and air conditions.
Premium might help keep the timing from retarding under high engine load like heavy acceleration or towing/hill climbing when knocking might occur, but for most daily driving, the engine will use the same timing settings it uses on regular gas. |
06-26-2007, 07:08 AM | #176 |
Parallel Parking Pro
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So we should only run the absolute minimum RON recommended and anything above is just a waste of money?
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06-26-2007, 07:50 AM | #177 |
Clean and (dis)Functional
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No...it depends on how you drive. Lots of flat land and easy driving---87 octane. Lots of hills without slowing down and not creeping up them, and lots of fast starts----you may see a little better mileage with higher octane, but only during those higher load conditions. Each individual driver would have to judge for themselves if it would be a cost benefit....it's a slim one at best, but it may feel like a little more power in those conditions.
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06-26-2007, 08:16 AM | #178 | |
vroom vroom
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Quote:
I've just looked through all the ECU and ignition related stuff in the repair and technical manuals... my head's spinning now, our humble little car has some pretty advanced systems... I was trying to find out if the ECU has any kind of learning system, that might try to advance the ignition timing until knock is detected, as this would allow it to run the maximum ignition advance regardless of the fuel used. But I find no evidence of this, but also no evidence of the contrary. From what I gather, the actual spark timing is determined by the crankshaft and camshaft position sensors, and retarded by the knock sensor when required. What I did find out, though, is that the spark advance can be set in a range from -64 to +63.5 degrees, and the normal value when idling should be between 0 to 14 degrees. Truthfully, the only way we can know for sure, is to have some device such as the Toyota intelligent tester used by the technicians, to monitor the actual ignition timing while driving with different tanks of fuel, such as 87, 91, 95 octane, and compare the average timing between each tank. Until then, it's really a matter of educated guesswork and subjectivity...
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06-26-2007, 11:17 AM | #179 | |
Drives: Yaris 3 Door, 04 WRX, 69 Lotus Join Date: Apr 2007
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06-26-2007, 01:10 PM | #180 |
Clean and (dis)Functional
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You will not get a knock unless the ECU malfunctions....but it is guaranteed a 10.5 to 1 compression engine without knock sensors and ECU runs like crap on 87 octane. You would be able to get it to run level ground and very mild acceleration with good mileage,but you wouldn't want to drive up a hill. If you retarded the timing enough to be able to climb a hill the gas mileage would suffer big time. The ECU w/ knock sensors are wonderful items!! Premium would only add a little more power/efficiency on the climb IMO...definitely not enough to match the WRX!
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