The open political discussion thread. Read the first post!

[elmo]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

Where is this perceived strain? Solution: don't look at the "tax" column on your paycheck. You won't miss it.

PS: Rachel Maddow is now my hero.

at first i thought you were serious, was thinking you might want to get a mental evaluation before obamacare...

then you will have to wait in line so ling you will forget what you were there for in the first place

[ChinoCharles]

No, I'm serious. I'd just be happy if the wingers would stop wasting my money on pork projects and trips to Argentina. Spend it on roads, bridges and the 47 million uninsured.

[gokartride]

Originally Posted by elmo

has anyone EVER see a program that the government runs work without putting strains on the already overburdened tax payer

Happens every day.

[Bob Dog]

What I'm tired of is government subsidies to major corporations, banks, manufacturing and the leacherous healthcare industry, and porkies like new runways for airport in no traffic nowhereville. I mean wtf are they doing planting flowers in th middle of the interstates when people are dying for lack of healthcare. I'm also damn tired of sports stadiums and arenas getting subsidies. I don't hate sports, bu f--k me paying out taxes so someone else can make a profit on people watching a ball game.

[TLyttle]

"overburdened taxpayer"... That phrase, coming from the US, makes me giggle. Most countries have heavier taxes than the US; the taxes are applied in different forms, and in Canada (for instance) are usually "sin" taxes, ie, cigarettes and booze are heavily taxed, but not nearly as hard hit as, say, Norway. Having the US taxes get dumped straight into wars (2 of them, remember?) is a ridiculous burden in my mind, yet there are 47 million medically uninsured citizens there. I guess that makes sense to some...

[ChinoCharles]

I don't hate sports, bu f--k me paying out taxes so someone else can make a profit on people watching a ball game.

Now, in defense of subsidizing sports stadiums, the impact a new stadium has on a local economy is usually drastic. Cleveland has had three new stadiums in the last 20 years and without them, I might be living near a crater.

"overburdened taxpayer"... That phrase, coming from the US, makes me giggle. Most countries have heavier taxes than the US; the taxes are applied in different forms, and in Canada (for instance) are usually "sin" taxes, ie, cigarettes and booze are heavily taxed, but not nearly as hard hit as, say, Norway. Having the US taxes get dumped straight into wars (2 of them, remember?) is a ridiculous burden in my mind, yet there are 47 million medically uninsured citizens there. I guess that makes sense to some...

Agreed. Most of the nuts in this country don't know how good we have it, and they certainly don't understand how having it this good is screwing things up.

[Bob Dog]

I don't like paying taxes one bit, and I like a stripped down government, but some essentials seem best done in such a way that there is no profit motive. I would put under this heading, infrastructure, military(although there is all that juicy pork in subcontracting isn't there), police, disaster, and fire protection, and as world wide evidence demonstrates, healthcare.

[Bob Dog]

Perhaps it should be a crater, when students here in the rural south are using texts books so dated that the internet is mentioned in the future tense it seems to us a serious misuse of our tax money .

[elmo]

folks there is only 1 way in my sick little mind THE FAIR TAX, if you don't know what it is buy the book i don't even have time to explain it but in a nut shell you only pay taxes on products you buy that way EVERYONE pays


Oh by the way TLyttle we got sin taxes here to so don't feel special because you live in canada.

[RedRide]

What I'm tired of and totally disgusted about is the fact that the majority of our lawmakes are just coporate puppets. This is true for both side of the asile.

The is no real democracy. The lawmakers simply pass laws to benifit their bidggest financial contributors. It is governmen for, by, and of the corporations.

We would have real, sensible health care reform if it wasn't because of this.

[Bob Dog]

Our lives are bought and sold like medieval surfs and seems nobody has guts to face it: noone gets elected without being corporate moneys whore in this country:

of the sheeple
by the swine
for the wolves

money buys the legislature, and money buys the lawyers who make it possible for crimes to be committed by corporations and those of extreme wealth that a person ordinary means would spend their life in jail for.

But then again I guess its always been that way....

[ChinoCharles]

Well, I don't know a lot of average working-class people that bother running for office, either. Hard to complain when the sheep seem content in the pastures...

[Bob Dog]

Working class people can't afford to run for office and if they did big money would throw down if they suspected any real form of opposition.

[PaidTimeOff]

Originally Posted by JBougie

I don't have to read it. I don't support it. I don't NEED to know exact details of why I don't support it - just the basis of what it is makes me not support it.

I just don't think that anyone should be so sure of something when they don't know without a shadow of a doubt it is really something your ideals support. That's all I'm saying.

Just because I'm against it doesn't mean I think everyone should be - I just think that you shouldn't trust what some guy in Washington tells you... or any website for that matter. Sure it's a great start when collecting information but there has to be more ... that's all I'm saying.

I really don't consider that a flame.

Again, you quoted me posting up a resource, not taking a stand against or for this bill. Simply doing what you are now saying is a "great start," by providing information for people to look at. Insulted me for believing things other people are saying, accusing me of not reading the bill, not reading the bill yourself, and now stating that you don't need to read it to not support it...

If you haven't read the bill, then where did you get your information to come to a conclusion on it? Did you hear it on the news? in a website? Your parents? Some friend? How does any of this make sense to you? Do you not see the hypocrisy in your own accusations and statements? I'm sincerely asking.

[Kal-El]

I see there are people who actually believe there are 47 million American's who are so unfortunate not to be able to get health insurance. They are using this number to push their agenda.

According to the Census Bureau,

Of that 47 million, 38 percent of them (18 million) have personal incomes of more than $50,000 a year. This means that they can afford coverage, and choose not to purchase it.

Of that other 29 million uninsured, the biggest chunk of them aren't even US citizens. Their number is about 12.6 million, or 27 percent of the original '47 million uninsured' number. This could be a higher percentage, because many prominent think tanks place the number of illegal immigrants as high as 20 million, instead of the 12 or 13 million figure.

Of that remaining 16.4 million uninsured, 8 million are under the age of 18. If the parents of these young ones cannot afford to cover them either on their own family plans or independently, there are public insurance options already available for them but their parents have just not signed them up.

So that leaves us with 8.4 million uninsured, a figure less than 3 percent of the American population, and many of these are 18-20 somethings who choose not to purchase health coverage because, well, they think that they won't get sick! Health experts actually refer to this age group as the 'invincibles!' The remainder of this 8.4 million uninsured are low income and could easily be covered by either federal Medicare or state run Medicaid or some charity insurance programs, and they for whatever reason have chosen not to go and get signed up.



That's the breakdown folks, look it up yourself if you want.

It basically comes down to possibly destroying our health care system to cover illegal aliens at taxpayer's expense.

Don't get all of your info from Obama and the media that elected him!

Become informed.

[ChinoCharles]

Cite your sources.

[mo_feezy]

I'm a sociologist by trade, and I am positive the numbers you are posting are incorrect. the 47 million is AFTER accounting for undocumented immigrants, and because a person earns 50k a year doesn't mean very much if they are the only person in the household working, especially if their employer doesn't cover health insurance expenses.

Again, saying "according to the census bureau" does not count for much, considering that much has changed since the last time they officially did any actual data collection (that was during the CLINTON administration).

finally, when you say things like: "Don't get all of your info from Obama and the media that elected him!" you instantly lose ALL credibility with the rational few left in this country.

[churp]

Too bad ther is no rational few in the DC area! 2 to 4 year term limits...with no lifetime health and retirement benifits afterwards, would weed most of the idiots out in a few years.