5w-20 motor oil : who's using it ? ...

[TheSilkySmooth]

Just as an example BMW M engines have been failing running our API SL, SM 10W-30. Also Chevrolet (corvette) pulled its mobil1 recommendaion and factory fill last year due to the oil NOT staying in viscosity grade throughout the OC service interval.

[SilverGlow]

Originally Posted by TheSilkySmooth

This is an oversimplification on your part. The oil must provide adequate viscosity for the running clearance of the engine design - most critical are the journal clearance and piston to wall clearance. If you run an inadequate viscosity you will easily have catastrophic engine failure. As for margin lube contact wear in cam lobe-to-tappet face, piston top-to- bore, crank flange to journal thrust cap, and unfortunately add for our engines; timing chain sprocket to guide and chain to sprocket. Proper lubrication here relies all on the polar nature of the base oil (most popular syn are NOT polar) and the metal salt extreme pressure additives in the oil. Without them you WILL have premature wear no matter how good your base oil is (Good as in Motul, Redline, Fuchs, ELF NOT Mobil, Pennzoil, BP!) If toyota specs 30w and 20W they are really flirting with disaster. The motor MUST be clearanced for one or the other. Guaranteed we will see a high percentage of spun bearings and collapsed piston skirts with this misguided TSB policy on our 1nzfe engine.

Sonja's Dad

But your write up does not apply to this discussion.

You know why?

You are the one that is over-simplifying this issue. Why then do many UOA reports (Used Oil Analysis) show that using 20 weight oil does not in fact show more wear and tear?

Because Toyota has back-spec'd our cars for 20 weight oil, and if it would cause engine failure, then why would they invite millions of in-warranty repairs by publising the TSB, which states we all can use 20 weight in our cars.

And you know more then Toyota engineers? Why would Toyota willfully dirty their reputation and name by telling us to use 20 weight oil if it will cause enginen damage? Please.....

The only way what that what you write is true is if someone uses 20 weight on a engine THAT IS NOT SPEC'D FOR 20w oil.

This is not the case with our Yaris 1.5L engines.

[SilverGlow]

Originally Posted by TheSilkySmooth

Just as an example BMW M engines have been failing running our API SL, SM 10W-30. Also Chevrolet (corvette) pulled its mobil1 recommendaion and factory fill last year due to the oil NOT staying in viscosity grade throughout the OC service interval.

NO oil stays in viscosity during it's life.

ALL oils will eventually shear down in viscosity, and often this shearing is not much because oxidation of that oil can actually thicken the oil.

Spends some time at bobistheoilguy.com and learn how oil works...otherwise your opinions are based on nothing scientific.

[TheSilkySmooth]

Originally Posted by SilverGlow

NO oil stays in viscosity during it's life.

ALL oils will eventually shear down in viscosity, and often this shearing is not much because oxidation of that oil can actually thicken the oil.

Spends some time at bobistheoilguy.com and learn how oil works...otherwise your opinions are based on nothing scientific.

Who do you think you are talking to? You have logical argument? You make me laugh so hard I bust my kidney, little boy - getting too big for your pants, little boy.
You have a speck of knowledge but not enough to be anywhere near expert in field of tribology. BITOG are rank amatures and full of misinformation. If you think this is good site you have been fooled. Spend seven years at University maybe you have some more knowledge.

[pinoypizzaboy]

im begining to like this thread

[metalshark]

I ran factory dino for 10,000 miles and then switched to Mobil-1 5w-30. I did a multi-tank mileage test before and after the first change-over and got exactly the same mileage. My three-tank average at the 15 K mark is 43 MPG. I'll be posting my three tank (after) average for Amsoil 5w-20 in three weeks.
I did the change yesterday. Very little metal on the magnetic drain plug. I haven't noticed any increase in noise yet and butt-dyno says yes. When the stats are in I'll post under mileage.

[PaidTimeOff]

Originally Posted by TheSilkySmooth

Who do you think you are talking to? You have logical argument? You make me laugh so hard I bust my kidney, little boy - getting too big for your pants, little boy.
You have a speck of knowledge but not enough to be anywhere near expert in field of tribology. BITOG are rank amatures and full of misinformation. If you think this is good site you have been fooled. Spend seven years at University maybe you have some more knowledge.

I had no idea spending seven years at a University grants one professional oil knowledge... I knew I should've stayed there two more years!

[dallas]

Lighter oil on start up also means less oil on engine parts when starting as they drain of faster, also lighter oils need more ep additives because of the boundary lubrication which can occur, I'd rather let the oil do the work not the ep additives. In hot climates a 5w20 or 0w20 is quite light at operating temperatures and will have more wear over a 5w30 or 0w30. Best choice would be to use a 0w30 for least amount of wear. If all you care about is best mileage go with the lightest oil you can find.

Originally Posted by SilverGlow

A lot of people that don't understand how oil works think this.

Thinner oil means faster circulation at start up. Faster circulation to the farthest reaches of an engine means less wear. And it is at start up that 90% of engine wear happens. At full operational speeds, the protection that w20 provides is nearly identical to most 30 weights.

[barryware]

I recommended against zero (0) weight oils when that was being talked about.

I'm not an oil exert but I did learn a lot researching oil types for my kids crotch rocket.

There is a lot involved.. Piston velocity is a big factor when selecting an oil, not the only factor but in high rev engines (which we do not own), a big factor.

I don't quite understand the argument.. The oil cap says 5w-30. There is a tsb stating 5w-20 can be used. Either seems acceptable.

I use 5w-30 extended run synthetic and change it every 30,000 miles (just kidding), every 5K .

When you turn off the engine, do you guys think that everything drains dry? There is still plenty of oil left on the components to handle a start and run till the oil gets pumping which is pretty much immediately. A dry oil filter (fresh change) is another story.

My 2 cents...

I'm a PC

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by SilverGlow

But your write up does not apply to this discussion.

You know why?

You are the one that is over-simplifying this issue. Why then do many UOA reports (Used Oil Analysis) show that using 20 weight oil does not in fact show more wear and tear?

Because Toyota has back-spec'd our cars for 20 weight oil, and if it would cause engine failure, then why would they invite millions of in-warranty repairs by publising the TSB, which states we all can use 20 weight in our cars.

And you know more then Toyota engineers? Why would Toyota willfully dirty their reputation and name by telling us to use 20 weight oil if it will cause enginen damage? Please.....

The only way what that what you write is true is if someone uses 20 weight on a engine THAT IS NOT SPEC'D FOR 20w oil.

This is not the case with our Yaris 1.5L engines.

You're not still using the 0w-20 that is not SPEC'D for our Yaris 1.5L, are you, just because you found that viscosity listed in that Toyota TSB that you found...if you read it clearly the 0w20 is for the 1.8L, not the Yaris 1.5L
The engine damage isn't a fair trade for a little extra mpg.

5w-20 yes, 0w-20 no

[gid]

here's a concern , on T.S.B. ( http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=604802 ) for WARRANTY it states " NOT APPLICABLE TO WARRANTY " , does this mean TOYOTA is not responsible for the use of these oils in their engines ? Makes me wonder if they've done enough research and we are the lab rats . Many TOYOTA owners are having an issue with TOYOTA for the TACOMA frame that's rotting out and breaking . Especially for those who own the 2001 and 2002s , so my trust in TOYOTA is not 100% . Last , since the switch from 5w-30 > 5w-20 there's more engine noise , it's most noticeable at high speeds on the interstate . Seems like it could be the timing chain , . I'm considering to dump this fill of 5w-20 and go back to 5w-30 . The oil is PENNZOIL Platinum which is highly regarded at www.bobistheoilguy.com for U.O.A.s . If curious , http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Board=3&page=1 , there are other good U.O.A.s for the PLATINUM 5w-20 on other pages , so I doubt it's the oil .

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by gid

here's a concern , on T.S.B. ( http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=604802 ) for WARRANTY it states " NOT APPLICABLE TO WARRANTY " , does this mean TOYOTA is not responsible for the use of these oils in their engines ? Makes me wonder if they've done enough research and we are the lab rats . Many TOYOTA owners are having an issue with TOYOTA for the TACOMA frame that's rotting out and breaking . Especially for those who own the 2001 and 2002s , so my trust in TOYOTA is not 100% . Last , since the switch from 5w-30 > 5w-20 there's more engine noise , it's most noticeable at high speeds on the interstate . Seems like it could be the timing chain , . I'm considering to dump this fill of 5w-20 and go back to 5w-30 . The oil is PENNZOIL Platinum which is highly regarded at www.bobistheoilguy.com for U.O.A.s . If curious , http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Board=3&page=1 , there are other good U.O.A.s for the PLATINUM 5w-20 on other pages , so I doubt it's the oil .

They say to use 5w-20 that will void the warranty?
And also in the very same *updated* Toyota TSB they cover themselves again when saying it's okay to use 5w-20, but see the attached *note*...

Quote: "The recommended viscosity grade for this oil differs according to vehicle model. Use the recommended grade specified on the oil filler cap or in the Repair Manual or Owner’s Manual for each vehicle."

[gid]

just dumped out the PLATINUM 5w-20 synthetic and went back to SHELL 5w-30 full synthetic . The oil poured out of the pan like it was water . There was no increase in mileage and the engine was noisier on interstate and when revving engine between gears . This is last time I'll likely take or listen to anyones advice on oils . Plan to drain the PLATINUM ( synthetic ) 5w-20 out of the '08 sedan tonight . Will be replacing with the SHELL full synthetic 5w-30 as well . I'm sticking with the owners manual and oil cap recommendations . This is for any vehicle present or future . So , not worth the so-called incease in mileage or better circulation for cold starts .

[RagnaCaT]

Originally Posted by gid

here's a concern , on T.S.B. ( http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=604802 ) for WARRANTY it states " NOT APPLICABLE TO WARRANTY " , does this mean TOYOTA is not responsible for the use of these oils in their engines ? Makes me wonder if they've done enough research and we are the lab rats . Many TOYOTA owners are having an issue with TOYOTA for the TACOMA frame that's rotting out and breaking . Especially for those who own the 2001 and 2002s , so my trust in TOYOTA is not 100% . Last , since the switch from 5w-30 > 5w-20 there's more engine noise , it's most noticeable at high speeds on the interstate . Seems like it could be the timing chain , . I'm considering to dump this fill of 5w-20 and go back to 5w-30 . The oil is PENNZOIL Platinum which is highly regarded at www.bobistheoilguy.com for U.O.A.s . If curious , http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Board=3&page=1 , there are other good U.O.A.s for the PLATINUM 5w-20 on other pages , so I doubt it's the oil .

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

They say to use 5w-20 that will void the warranty?
And also in the very same *updated* Toyota TSB they cover themselves again when saying it's okay to use 5w-20, but see the attached *note*...

Quote: "The recommended viscosity grade for this oil differs according to vehicle model. Use the recommended grade specified on the oil filler cap or in the Repair Manual or Owner’s Manual for each vehicle."

Nope what it mean is that you can't go to Toyota and have change it under warranty. Which means you pay for the change! Also that our series engine has to be in the TSB for 5w20 which is 1NZ

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by RagnaCaT

Nope what it mean is that you can't go to Toyota and have change it under warranty. Which means you pay for the change! Also that our series engine has to be in the TSB for 5w20 which is 1NZ

I don't know what free oil change claims has to do with this part of that Toyota TSB...

Quote: "The recommended viscosity grade for this oil differs according to vehicle model. Use the recommended grade specified on the oil filler cap or in the Repair Manual or Owner’s Manual for each vehicle."

Looks like it's pretty plain to me: "Use the recommended grade specified on the oil filler cap or in the Repair Manual or Owner’s Manual for each vehicle."

[RagnaCaT]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

I don't know what free oil change claims has to do with this part of that Toyota TSB...

Quote: "The recommended viscosity grade for this oil differs according to vehicle model. Use the recommended grade specified on the oil filler cap or in the Repair Manual or Owner’s Manual for each vehicle."

Looks like it's pretty plain to me: "Use the recommended grade specified on the oil filler cap or in the Repair Manual or Owner’s Manual for each vehicle."

Exactly but in the TSB 5w20 is specified for the 1NZ so what there doing is "If you don't understand this just do what the cap says" That way Toyota never misguided you and washes their hands. So if you every have an issue remember TSB number or the Cap and your fine when your up against Toyota cuase they specified there options so both are OK

[dallas]

Wear metals in testing do go up for me with 5w20, best results with 0w30.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by RagnaCaT

Exactly but in the TSB 5w20 is specified for the 1NZ so what there doing is "If you don't understand this just do what the cap says" That way Toyota never misguided you and washes their hands. So if you every have an issue remember TSB number or the Cap and your fine when your up against Toyota cuase they specified there options so both are OK

Both are okay, if you don't mind the extra noise with 5w-20. To me extra noise = extra wear.