Would an All-Electric yaris be cheaper in the long run?

[firebob]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

most charging would occur at night, during lower consumption periods. Sounds alright to me

Are you saying that you would not just come home and plug it up or would you come home and hope you plug it in right before you go to bed. I’m sure unless you were going right back out you would plug it in when you got home so no I don’t think most of the charging would be at night; I think most of it would be when there was already a high demand on the power grid from every one getting home from work cooking dinner and taking showers.

[jambo101]

Sounds like an option i would consider if 100% of my driving was local,but when doing trips of 500 miles or more how far you going to get before you need to plug it in? and where will you plug it in? and how long will you have to wait till its charged?

[bzinn 1]

my buddy at work bought a datsun last year,not sure but think it is the B210......he got the electric motor and batteries so far,and most the wires and other stuff.......no tranny as the motor bolts up to drive line via a converter of some sort.....

his total investment is under $6000.....and he figures the car will do 12second 1/4miles.......

there are people out there doing electric conversions all over and it is a really cool alternative and honestly the parts are fairly comparabel to fossil fuel drive tranes.......


Electric yaris I would buy......honestly this is about the funnest car I have owned,takes no gas,drives forever,pretty well built,has enough creature comforts to keep me happy,cheap,and looks cool with minor mods liek wheels and tint......

[rningonfumes]

Working off of Garm's statement, I would believe they will add some computerization so that people won't need to go back out to their garages to flip the switch, no?

[why?]

Like most water heaters, ev's could easily be programmed to charge at a certain time.

The biggest argument against them has not been presented yet: Range. Even the Chevy Volt, supposedly the most advanced hybrid, can't go squat on battery only. Battery technology is not even close to where it needs to be for ev's to be useful. A range of at least 200 miles on a charge at maximum of 8 hours is necessary.

And then price would be an option. Most sources say no car manufacturer selling a hybrid is making money, and even the most optomistic say that Toyota is just finally starting to see a profit from Prius sales.

How crazy was the GM EV1 lease? Like $600 or more a month? That's insane.

Electric cars existed in the 1800's, then were dropped for gasoline. Technology isn't quite what it needs to be for them to be a reality yet.

And then, say the range is decent, the price is alright, you have to calculate electricity costs and all that other good stuff.

And, no the grid is not up to it. Like up north, when we in Florida just had our coldest days, the electric company was on the radio begging people to conserve electricity, and they still almost had to resort to rolling blackouts.

[rningonfumes]

And on those rolling black outs, what time of the day was it?

[captainm27]

I am surprised that with all the advances in technology we have today, that battery technology seems to be at a standstill. I remember when 10 years ago the average new laptop would last for 2 hours. The same still holds true today. If you buy your average HP or Dell, you'll still get only about 2 hours of use out of it. I wonder if other factors (such as greed and evil) have kept battery technology from really growing.

[scape]

Originally Posted by captainm27

I wonder if other factors (such as greed and evil) have kept battery technology from really growing.

Big companies are pouring big money into battery technologies; I think greed is what keeps entrepreneurs and these companies in the mix of trying out new battery technologies, pushing things in new directions because they want that big payoff.

[why?]

Originally Posted by captainm27

I am surprised that with all the advances in technology we have today, that battery technology seems to be at a standstill. I remember when 10 years ago the average new laptop would last for 2 hours. The same still holds true today. If you buy your average HP or Dell, you'll still get only about 2 hours of use out of it. I wonder if other factors (such as greed and evil) have kept battery technology from really growing.

Battery technology is not at a standstill at all, they are trying and figuring out new things.

You can't compare it with laptops. A brand new laptop today makes a laptop a decade ago look like a rock. In the computer industry, battery technology is struggling to keep up with the demands from newer power sucking computer technology.

People keep saying that battery technology for cars is just about to hit a breakthrough, and become truly usable for the mainstream. Although they've been saying that for quite a while.

[captainm27]

Originally Posted by why?

Battery technology is not at a standstill at all, they are trying and figuring out new things.

You can't compare it with laptops. A brand new laptop today makes a laptop a decade ago look like a rock. In the computer industry, battery technology is struggling to keep up with the demands from newer power sucking computer technology.

People keep saying that battery technology for cars is just about to hit a breakthrough, and become truly usable for the mainstream. Although they've been saying that for quite a while.

True, I know what you mean. But at the same time, we've got Netbooks using Atom processors, which barely use the energy that laptops used a decade ago, but they still get only about 2 hours charge.

[jambo101]

Wonder what ever happened to the research on nuclear powered cars?
A small bead of uranium powering a steam based power unit might be more feasible than batteries.

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by jambo101

Wonder what ever happened to the research on nuclear powered cars?
A small bead of uranium powering a steam based power unit might be more feasible than batteries.

Using nuclear material to power cars will never happen for 3 reasons:

1) There is a highly finite amount of Uranium and its radioactive cousins in the world.

2) The containment and cooling systems needed for an on-board reactor would be prohibitively heavy.

3) Considering that our use of nuclear fuel is just 5% efficient it is nowhere near as efficient as a battery (70%), and it produces non-recyclable, incredibly toxic and dangerous waste.

[Sidicas]

Originally Posted by captainm27

I am surprised that with all the advances in technology we have today, that battery technology seems to be at a standstill. I remember when 10 years ago the average new laptop would last for 2 hours. The same still holds true today. If you buy your average HP or Dell, you'll still get only about 2 hours of use out of it. I wonder if other factors (such as greed and evil) have kept battery technology from really growing.

Bad comparison...Laptops are a lot smaller and also a lot lighter weight than they were 10 years ago..

Battery tech has definitely evolved by quite a bit.. Netbooks are hitting over 8 hours of battery life, most modern laptops nowadays have beefy 3D video chips that you just wouldn't find in laptops 10 years ago..

I just don't see electric cars being cheaper than gas, I've run the numbers here in NY.. And it turns out that electricity from Niagara mohawk is so expensive here that electric cars wouldn't even break even until gas hits over $5.00 a gallon, assuming that the electric car costs the same as the gas car.. If we as the USA, go electric, we NEED to get those electric costs down and that's likely going to mean nuclear power plants and lots of them..

People love to push the "green" electricity like windmills, solar, and hydroelectric, but anybody who's been living off of such electricity sources knows that the costs for "green" electricity is just not worth it.. Renewable energy is just not reliable at all.. People justify them with statements like.. "Well, in a 100 years, these solar panels will pay for themself! ".. Well, not if you have to keep replacing them every 10 years because the acidity in bird poo ruins them.. Or if your windmill farm gets destroyed by a tornado or hurricane every 5 years... Or if a droubt hits or those darn beavers reroute your water source for your hydro-electric plant.. And then you can't take out the beavers because PETA comes after you, and you can't run your hydro plant because of the beavers stealing your water, and you can't run non-renewable because of the environmentalists.. We screw ourselves over every day..

Honestly, I'm very surprised electricity isn't a lot higher in price than it is now.. It must be those people down south running the coal and gas power plants that are keeping our grid together... I'm running off of hydro-electric power and paying some of the highest electricity bills across the entire united states. Needless to say, Niagara mohawk is STILL struggling to deliver reliable renewable energy from Niagara falls despite all the money they get from the Candian government, the USA government, and my own wallet.


/rant..

[Astroman]

People love to push the "green" electricity like windmills, solar, and hydroelectric, but anybody who's been living off of such electricity sources knows that the costs for "green" electricity is just not worth it.. Renewable energy is just not reliable at all.. People justify them with statements like.. "Well, in a 100 years, these solar panels will pay for themself! ".. Well, not if you have to keep replacing them every 10 years because the acidity in bird poo ruins them.. Or if your windmill farm gets destroyed by a tornado or hurricane every 5 years... Or if a droubt hits or those darn beavers reroute your water source for your hydro-electric plant.. And then you can't take out the beavers because PETA comes after you, and you can't run your hydro plant because of the beavers stealing your water, and you can't run non-renewable because of the environmentalists.. We screw ourselves over every day..

Wow.... Your statement is wrong in so many ways. I live in central washington with the lowest rates in the country thanks to hydroelectric dams (which have been here working great for 60+ years, with an average of 2 power outages a year mostly due to weather or a raccoon getting into the transformers) and windfarms. We actually have too much of the stuff, and have to sell it to the rest of the state, parts of Oregon and Idaho. And central WA is a desert, our rivers are fed by snowpack. No problems with drought as the mighty Columbia roars on. Our electricity rate is about .02 cents per kWh so electric cars are very viable here. However our other energy costs are on average higher than the rest of the country. The last couple of times I was down in California their gas & diesel was cheaper.

Our wind farms are not subject to hurricanes, that is strictly coastal areas, and nor do we get cyclones. Those wind farms are put in with agreement (and nice compensation) to grazing land owners.

Eelectric cars might not be cost wise for all areas, but here in the Pacific Nortwest they certainly are. We even have a outfit here in the area that does plug-in conversions for hybrids. So please, save us the myth that hurricanes and beavers make "green" energy viable. We've been doing it here for over 60 years, long before Fox News, and the proof is in our low electricity rates and our awesome clean air.

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by Astroman

Wow.... Your statement is wrong in so many ways. I live in central washington with the lowest rates in the country thanks to hydroelectric dams (which have been here working great for 60+ years, with an average of 2 power outages a year mostly due to weather or a raccoon getting into the transformers) and windfarms. We actually have too much of the stuff, and have to sell it to the rest of the state, parts of Oregon and Idaho. And central WA is a desert, our rivers are fed by snowpack. No problems with drought as the mighty Columbia roars on. Our electricity rate is about .02 cents per kWh so electric cars are very viable here. However our other energy costs are on average higher than the rest of the country. The last couple of times I was down in California their gas & diesel was cheaper.

Our wind farms are not subject to hurricanes, that is strictly coastal areas, and nor do we get cyclones. Those wind farms are put in with agreement (and nice compensation) to grazing land owners.

Eelectric cars might not be cost wise for all areas, but here in the Pacific Nortwest they certainly are. We even have a outfit here in the area that does plug-in conversions for hybrids. So please, save us the myth that hurricanes and beavers make "green" energy viable. We've been doing it here for over 60 years, long before Fox News, and the proof is in our low electricity rates and our awesome clean air.

Too bad we all don't live in your neighborhood......but we can't. And the country has to live and make energy choices based on the average, not the exception of your neck of the woods. And what does Fox news have to do with it?

You should have started your pontification with the qualification of "In my opinion" because that is all it is. Your opinion.

[Astroman]

Originally Posted by daf62757

Too bad we all don't live in your neighborhood......but we can't. And the country has to live and make energy choices based on the average, not the exception of your neck of the woods. And what does Fox news have to do with it?

You should have started your pontification with the qualification of "In my opinion" because that is all it is. Your opinion.

lol, those are the facts, not my opinion. Except for the fox news jab, your statement about beavers, epa and hurricanes is something you would hear from a faux news talking head.

People did fight the windfarms here, but only because they said it ruined the view even though they were built on hills that only had grass and a few sage brush. And for the killing of birds, my friend only saw one in a year on a 50+ windfarm, and there was no evidence it was killed by the windmachine.

Sadly there isn't a one-size fits all for everyone. Our utility power here is publicly owned so we get great rates. Privatized power is where the rates really start to climb and reliability becomes an issue.

The bottom line electric is cleaner here than any other form of energy and is cheap, renewable, and clean. Making electric vehicles a real viable option

http://www.cbr.washington.edu/crisp/hydro/ The two dams in my area are both non-federal projects, Rocky Reach and Rock Island Dams.

[Sidicas]

Originally Posted by Astroman

Wow.... Your statement is wrong in so many ways. I live in central washington with the lowest rates in the country thanks to hydroelectric dams (which have been here working great for 60+ years, with an average of 2 power outages a year mostly due to weather or a raccoon getting into the transformers) and windfarms. We actually have too much of the stuff, and have to sell it to the rest of the state, parts of Oregon and Idaho. And central WA is a desert, our rivers are fed by snowpack. No problems with drought as the mighty Columbia roars on. Our electricity rate is about .02 cents per kWh so electric cars are very viable here. However our other energy costs are on average higher than the rest of the country. The last couple of times I was down in California their gas & diesel was cheaper.

I've never heard of a single renewable energy based power station that didn't need government funds to be competitive, but I don't doubt that there's probably a few of them out there.

Not everybody is "lucky" enough to live along fault lines where there is tons of free geothermal energy to tap into.. Of course, that's kind of like having an oil well in your backyard and not having to worry about the global market's gas prices..

If the power infrastructure existed such that it was possible for you to sell your cheap electricity to us people here in NY, you could kiss your cheap electricity prices goodbye..

We're paying 17 cents a kilowatt hour here..

[firebob]

Originally Posted by rningonfumes

Working off of Garm's statement, I would believe they will add some computerization so that people won't need to go back out to their garages to flip the switch, no?

I can see the new threads of I plugged up my car but the thing didn’t charge. But they didn’t understand what they did wrong.


I would like to see a flex fuel generator installed into an electric car with a small tank. It would be ok to reduce the size of the battery pack for the genset but with the genset being able to run in it’s prim RMP range.