what brake pads & rotors are ideal for me?

[cdydjded]

Originally Posted by RacerFreakXXX

just as expensive or more expensive than what MI sells

Check eBay then...

[rob323]

Can you guys get Lucas or TRW pads over there? I use them on my Echo rally car and also on my previous rally car, without any fade problems, and they are quite good on the street also. A bit dusty but that's the last thing that goes through your mind as you are trying to pull up and your brakes fade on you.

Isn't it funny that those that have proper "race" cars don't seem to warp rotors yet the brakes on a race car will will get far hotter than any streeter ever will.

[yarrr]

Originally Posted by Loren

You obviously let a couple typos get in the way of reading and understanding the article. Of particular relevance is the bit about "cementite", which is harder than iron, and is the cause of most "warped rotor" complaints. It can't be removed with sandpaper.

lol. question my reading comprehension when its obvious you just browsed the article and its your pet theory of the week.

"the cast iron under the deposit begins to transform into cementite"

So if any of this was true and not all complete BS, I could sand the deposits off, and be left with flat iron with specks of cementite in it. I've seen brake deposits, I've dealt with them, this isn't some new amazing theory. There's no question, I had solid metal, that was not a flat surface. THAT is a warped rotor. Random internet links don't negate 99% of mechanics knowledge, and my first hand experience.

I really don't get why you're attempting to deny simple physics though. Stuff expands when it gets hot, if part of a piece of metal gets hot too quickly, it can warp. I don't know how to explain it much simpler. Take a cookie sheet out of the oven and pour cold water on it to see the reverse.

Originally Posted by Loren

Plain stock-style rotors are all you really need.

Another good article

(edit: Author is another brake system engineer, used to work for GM/Saturn. Used to race Saturns, hence the website.)

I can find obscure articles from "engineers" all day. Guess what, there was an engineer(or 12) on the oil rig that blew up and ruined millions of lives. Is any paper he wrote unquestionable??

For starters, they are backwards. Slots were first used for outgassing, cross drilling was used for keeping temps down. My cross drilled rotors lasted longer without cracking or warping than the stock non drilled rotors. Pads lasted longer too. They aren't at all like cheese graters, they are flat faced and don't cut in to your pads, unless installed terribly wrong.

NASCARs also have 4 inch brake vent holes, and are rebuilt/replaced after every race. Nascar brakes also have to stop you from 200 mph, which is where cracking CAN occur. Brembo makes brakes for nascar teams, have you seen their brake line up lately?

Have you looked at a bugatti/lambo/ferrari/porsche/audi lately? THEY ALL HAVE DRILLED ROTORS. Every one of those companies has an army of engineers that make too much money to write asinine articles on the internet about which brakes are "good," they just make the best brakes, and put them on the best cars.

[Tamago]

chinese slugs and PBR pads work perfectly for me

[Bluevitz-rs]

What's wrong with stock Toyota pads? I couldn't kill mine on the track! I put stock pads back in after 70,000km brake change.

Funny thing is, they actually work better once heated up on the track.

And as for maintenance, I take all four of my rotors off at least twice a year and using a flexible metal disc on my angle grinder, grind off the dark buildup and all the rust that form on the rotors from use and sitting in the weather.

[seth_man]

Originally Posted by Bluevitz-rs

What's wrong with stock Toyota pads? I couldn't kill mine on the track! I put stock pads back in after 70,000km brake change.

Funny thing is, they actually work better once heated up on the track.

my stock brakes also work very well on the track and on the street. ive got 60k miles and i dont even know how many track days on them, maybe 25 ish. no vibrations or any other problems ever. i have taken the brakes apart for cleaning + inspection every 10k or so. i will be putting oe toyota rotors and pads back on if these ever wear out.

[cali yaris]

I experienced way too much brake fade at the track on stock pads. Nothing like a mush pedal heading into a turn a little too fast, not a heap of fun.

25 track days on a set of brake pads? wow, that's amazing - but not my experience. hmmm, maybe autocross track days?

[Bluevitz-rs]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

I experienced way too much brake fade at the track on stock pads. Nothing like a mush pedal heading into a turn a little too fast, not a heap of fun.

25 track days on a set of brake pads? wow, that's amazing - but not my experience. hmmm, maybe autocross track days?

Well, for me I might have 110whp, so stock brakes can easily keep up. You on the other hand have a few more ponies to contain.

[RacerFreakXXX]

I've checked my pads and there is a good amount of meet on them and I think I just had a bad day where I was sitting in heavy traffic and had to stop short. It happens to easily by me, too many people living in an area where the roads were meant for half the amount of people. I think i'm just going to go with regular rotors and the street pads.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by yarrr

lol. question my reading comprehension when its obvious you just browsed the article and its your pet theory of the week.

"the cast iron under the deposit begins to transform into cementite"

So if any of this was true and not all complete BS, I could sand the deposits off, and be left with flat iron with specks of cementite in it. I've seen brake deposits, I've dealt with them, this isn't some new amazing theory. There's no question, I had solid metal, that was not a flat surface. THAT is a warped rotor. Random internet links don't negate 99% of mechanics knowledge, and my first hand experience.

I really don't get why you're attempting to deny simple physics though. Stuff expands when it gets hot, if part of a piece of metal gets hot too quickly, it can warp. I don't know how to explain it much simpler. Take a cookie sheet out of the oven and pour cold water on it to see the reverse.



I can find obscure articles from "engineers" all day. Guess what, there was an engineer(or 12) on the oil rig that blew up and ruined millions of lives. Is any paper he wrote unquestionable??

For starters, they are backwards. Slots were first used for outgassing, cross drilling was used for keeping temps down. My cross drilled rotors lasted longer without cracking or warping than the stock non drilled rotors. Pads lasted longer too. They aren't at all like cheese graters, they are flat faced and don't cut in to your pads, unless installed terribly wrong.

NASCARs also have 4 inch brake vent holes, and are rebuilt/replaced after every race. Nascar brakes also have to stop you from 200 mph, which is where cracking CAN occur. Brembo makes brakes for nascar teams, have you seen their brake line up lately?

Have you looked at a bugatti/lambo/ferrari/porsche/audi lately? THEY ALL HAVE DRILLED ROTORS. Every one of those companies has an army of engineers that make too much money to write asinine articles on the internet about which brakes are "good," they just make the best brakes, and put them on the best cars.

I think their silly theory is that by cramming on the brakes reeeal hard, getting the brake components real hot will somehow miraculously flatten out the rotor and remove all built-up deposits...in much the same way a brake lathe does, except the brake lathe is stationary and the cutting bits do a bit better job, while the vehicle's calipers and pistons are floating and subject to that built-in slop, and also the possible slop in the wheel bearings. lol

[severous01]

hawk HPS are awesome but dust like a mother...they wont fade or overheat like oem's. they just get better with heat.

EBC green stuff is good for street/light track use. red stuff for more track issues.

i'd go brembo blanks for rotors, stay away from slotted/drilled. they're just hard to turn if you warp them. many places wont turn them but order more for you.

[yarrr]

Originally Posted by severous01

hawk HPS are awesome but dust like a mother...they wont fade or overheat like oem's. they just get better with heat.

EBC green stuff is good for street/light track use. red stuff for more track issues.

i'd go brembo blanks for rotors, stay away from slotted/drilled. they're just hard to turn if you warp them. many places wont turn them but order more for you.

sigh. I've taken my drilled/slotted rotors in to be machined. They were barely warped if at all. Just a little beat up from debris. The shop charges 10 bucks a rotor normally and 15 a rotor if they are drilled slotted. The other places I called had no problem with drilled/slotted. Maybe its time to find a new mechanic or stop lying

And for the record. Flat tracks don't eat brakes that quick, they get a chance to cool down there. Come down 4000 feet of elevation over 15 miles in an automatic a few times and tell me how your stock pads and rotors are hanging in there.. If you're lucky you'll get to feel the rotor through the pedal the second it warps as your coming down a big long downgrade at the bottom of the hill.

20k miles and 0 track days. Stock rotors and pads were toast.

[severous01]

Originally Posted by yarrr

sigh. I've taken my drilled/slotted rotors in to be machined. They were barely warped if at all. Just a little beat up from debris. The shop charges 10 bucks a rotor normally and 15 a rotor if they are drilled slotted. The other places I called had no problem with drilled/slotted. Maybe its time to find a new mechanic or stop lying

And for the record. Flat tracks don't eat brakes that quick, they get a chance to cool down there. Come down 4000 feet of elevation over 15 miles in an automatic a few times and tell me how your stock pads and rotors are hanging in there.. If you're lucky you'll get to feel the rotor through the pedal the second it warps as your coming down a big long downgrade at the bottom of the hill.

20k miles and 0 track days. Stock rotors and pads were toast.

you use brakes on a downgrade??? no wonder you're toasting brakes. try downshifting and slowing down. use the transmission to slow the vehicle.

any way, anyone willing to break a bit turning drilled slotted rotors can have fun with it. my experience in racing shows that blanks are better. the quicker the heatsink can absorb and dissipate heat the better. start taking away material with drilled holes and you're taking away the heatsink's ability to absorb heat.

check out some race cars. i'm talking real race cars, not drifters or 'ricers'. all of them are using solid blanks, no drills or slots.

porsche, bmw and vette zo6 are using drilled but i'd still rather have blanks. so i'll stop 'lying' now and just let you do your own thing. keep chewing up your pads with drilled and slotted rotors...and keep paying twice as much for the rotors...and keep paying twice as much to have them turned...

[rob323]

Give me normal Toyota or Brembo discs (not slotted or drilled) and nice aggressive pads (Ferodo DS2500, DS3000) any day. I have no problem replacing rotors frequently as they are a consumable item. But then I do zilch driving on the street.

[xnamerxx]

waiting till the last moment to brake

Where Im from this is usually called saving the brakes since your only applying pressure for a shore amount of time and it only generates heat for a short amount of time.
Where do you guys get the ebc green brakes from I dont have a history of working on toyota so I dont know of any good places to get brakes from.

[cali yaris]

keep paying twice as much for the rotors...

Exaggerating to prove your point is not productive for anyone on here.

It's a 33% difference in my store, not double.

R1 Concepts rotors:
OEM: $73.99
Slotted: $109.99

[RacerFreakXXX]

I really do hate oem pads, I miss my Z's brembo brakes... the would stop my z on a dime. That's basically the feel I want from pads, so do I do street or street/track pads?

[RacerFreakXXX]

Well I'm ordered the EBC Red Stuff brake pads, cant beat $101.57 shipped... now for rotors. Do I buy the cepo set for $30 or the decent set for $65?