I was going to trade it in...

[detroiter]

There's a reason it's called a STANDARD transmission

[why?]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

What country are you in? I've never heard of a situation (in the US) where a dealer refuses a trade in. A dealer will take anything, even complete trash. They may not give you much, but they'll take it.
I have yet to see a single FRS or BRZ in the heavily populated northeast.
An odd analogy since most people don't know how to use Photoshop and computers don't come with Photoshop preloaded. It costs $700 (legitimately).

Yea, but who gets it legitimately except graphic artists? At this point though the term photoshop is a generic for any picture manipulation software. Some mistake MS paint for it.

And the reason it is a good analogy is because you don't need it to run a computer, but almost everyone that heavily uses a computer finds out that it does come in handy.

Originally Posted by Kal-El

It's already the case. Most of today's automatics are more efficient and faster than manual counterparts. With 6 speed autos commonplace, it's no surprise.

An exception is the Yaris because Toyota carried over the archaic 4 speed auto.

I disagree. There are some high tech automatic transmissions that are better than manuals, bet they have not filtered down to be mainstream yet. Most mainstream vehicles still use old fashioned slush boxes instead of high tech automatics.

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

Even if there are a few automatics which are technically getting better mileage than 5spd manuals....compare that to a 6 or 7 speed manual and you will see once again that the manual is more efficient. There is more drivetrain power loss through a slushbox and it also weighs considerably more than a manual box.

Not to mention that manual gearboxes are cheap and easy to fix should anything go wrong. Couple that with the better control it provides for performance or economy driving and it's a no-brainer. Manual transmissions will always be the choice for gearheads and for good reason.

I remember in the 90s folks saying that the automatic-equipped Supra turbo was actually slightly faster in a drag race than the manual counterpart....yet everyone I knew lusted after the manual because it was more fun :)

That is the thing though, there are automatics that provide better control and get better gas mileage. They shift faster and legitimately do everything better than a human could. At this point most of them come on a Ferrari. Although MB's 8 speed auto is rather amazing as well, as is VW's double clutch auto. These types of transmissions will eventually filter down to all cars.

Oh and yes, at this point you cannot buy a brand new Ferrari with a manual. Think on that.

Originally Posted by detroiter

There's a reason it's called a STANDARD transmission

because it was standard 60 years ago. The first automatic however did come out in 1904, and the Model T had one in 1908. So not so standard. Nothing in automotive tech is truly new. electric cars came out in the 1890's and at the turn of the century the fastest cars were steam powered.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by why?

Yea, but who gets it legitimately except graphic artists? At this point though the term photoshop is a generic for any picture manipulation software. Some mistake MS paint for it.

And the reason it is a good analogy is because you don't need it to run a computer, but almost everyone that heavily uses a computer finds out that it does come in handy.



I disagree. There are some high tech automatic transmissions that are better than manuals, bet they have not filtered down to be mainstream yet. Most mainstream vehicles still use old fashioned slush boxes instead of high tech automatics.



That is the thing though, there are automatics that provide better control and get better gas mileage. They shift faster and legitimately do everything better than a human could. At this point most of them come on a Ferrari. Although MB's 8 speed auto is rather amazing as well, as is VW's double clutch auto. These types of transmissions will eventually filter down to all cars.

Oh and yes, at this point you cannot buy a brand new Ferrari with a manual. Think on that.


because it was standard 60 years ago. The first automatic however did come out in 1904, and the Model T had one in 1908. So not so standard. Nothing in automotive tech is truly new. electric cars came out in the 1890's and at the turn of the century the fastest cars were steam powered.

Call me paranoid, but I want to have a car, if possible, that is light enough for me to push by myself and has a manual transmission....so that I can compression start it on my own if necessary. Every manual transmission car I've owned fit this criteria.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Fenanorn

I've never experienced a dealer not wanting a car at all. That's pathetic.

In my case with the Swift, that was the last year that model was going to be sold in the U.S., and the Toyota dealer knew it. Add in a Blue Book value of zero and replacing the steering rack, and I can't say that I blame them.

[Superfly]

Five years. I give it five years before multiple mainstream car manufacturers produce a superior automatic transmission that they begin to equip their cars with. I am betting on Ford and the Chrysler Group being the first too. The mandate on fuel efficiency is going to be the driving factor along with the continuing urban-ification of the states.

AFAIK, some dealerships will decline to take a trade-in, but not many. The dealership I bought my Yaris from generally avoids anything over 100k miles because they have difficulty moving the car. Not many people trade in a 100k mile car though. Dealerships want used cars because it is a better source of revenue and with the way the economy is, people are looking for more affordable cars. New cars are just getting way to expensive.

[InfamousDragon]

I would take it over my auto but I like the 4 door version of the 2012 LE. The car has grown on me

[SKurj]

As far as dealers not wanting the car I have 2 thoughts...

Either they knew I would refuse whatever they offered knowing that they couldn't give me a lot for it... The car is in awesome shape and only just over 100kms
OR
They know the FRS and BRZ are selling as fast as they can get them so just plain selling it outright with no trade perhaps has more advantages to them? (just a guess)

[Kal-El]

Most dealers have wholesalers they work with to unload high mileage/old cars that they don't want to sell on the lot. These wholesalers often just auction off cars at a local auto auction. There's a buyer for just about anything unless the car is ready for the scrap heap.

So it's very odd that they wouldn't even take a clean late model car. A manual Yaris isn't that hard to sell.

[DeathBeard]

I saw a 2010 fully loaded type-s hatchback, manual in yellow. Toyota certified with only 6k miles on the clock. Was owned by a Toyota exec who only had it a year. The dealer was asking 15k, I called the dealer and said the most I would offer is 11k, he took my info and said it would "never" happen, anyway got a call a couple months later dealer called me and said "come and get it"..apparently 5 speeds and yellow aren't popular in California which is fine by me

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Most dealers have wholesalers they work with to unload high mileage/old cars that they don't want to sell on the lot. These wholesalers often just auction off cars at a local auto auction.

^^^^^ This. I imagine in my case it would have been virtually impossible for 'my' wholesaler (who happened to be at the Toyota dealer at the same time I was) to not have made money. Since I was on a solo trip, he made my issue of an extra car go away (and I don't think I'd have gained that much if my car had happened to give out 'safety wise' in my home area rather than on a trip).

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by DeathBeard

apparently 5 speeds and yellow aren't popular in California which is fine by me

Yellow has the second longest wavelength (after Red), but is considered the most stimulating color...all the better to catch the eye of LEOs re some non radar violation . An insurance agent in California once told me that it costs more to insure a Yellow car in California (than other colors). However, I can see why you wanted that car . I used to see a Yaris that looked just like what you describe often parked in front of the Borders in San Rafael, CA. It looked great. Owner = ? I never did see anyone near the car.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Superfly

The mandate on fuel efficiency is going to be the driving factor along with the continuing urban-ification of the states.

I agree. I don't like the continuing 'urban-ification', but I do like the mandate on fuel efficiency (Obama significantly increasing future CAFE standards...one of the few things he's done that I agree with).

Dealerships want used cars because it is a better source of revenue and with the way the economy is, people are looking for more affordable cars.

I agree.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by why?

Yea, but who gets it legitimately except graphic artists? At this point though the term photoshop is a generic for any picture manipulation software. Some mistake MS paint for it.

And the reason it is a good analogy is because you don't need it to run a computer, but almost everyone that heavily uses a computer finds out that it does come in handy.



I disagree. There are some high tech automatic transmissions that are better than manuals, bet they have not filtered down to be mainstream yet. Most mainstream vehicles still use old fashioned slush boxes instead of high tech automatics.



That is the thing though, there are automatics that provide better control and get better gas mileage. They shift faster and legitimately do everything better than a human could. At this point most of them come on a Ferrari. Although MB's 8 speed auto is rather amazing as well, as is VW's double clutch auto. These types of transmissions will eventually filter down to all cars.

Oh and yes, at this point you cannot buy a brand new Ferrari with a manual. Think on that.


because it was standard 60 years ago. The first automatic however did come out in 1904, and the Model T had one in 1908. So not so standard. Nothing in automotive tech is truly new. electric cars came out in the 1890's and at the turn of the century the fastest cars were steam powered.

Last night I was looking at the April 2013 issue of Motor Trend and skimmed the article on the 2014 Subaru Forester. Subaru seems to be following the trend you discuss in your post above. The article mentions the 170 HP naturally aspirated version and the 250 HP turbocharged XT version. The article states that the 170 HP version is available with a 6-speed manual or a CVT, but that the 250 HP version is only available with the CVT. IIRC, there is quite a bit of difference in acceleration 0-60 between the two (6.2 sec vs 9.0 sec).

I picked up some brochures at an auto show here last month. I didn't sit in the Forester at the show (and didn't look at the sticker,) because the only Subaru I'd get is the base Impreza Hatchback. I looked at the brochures for the first time since the day of the show, and did find a 2014 Forester brochure. According to the brochure, the Motor Trend article is correct re the engine and transmission choices.

Another article I found online states that the CVT transmission in this Forester has a 6-speed manual mode and an 8-speed manual mode.

[why?]

A Subaru WRX is a good deal, the STi though is a bit overweight and overpriced. BRZ is awesome too. I have been a huge Subaru fan for a long time, the fact that everything comes with AWD is a gigantic plus for me. I wish more manufacturers would do that.

I will say the new CVT's are amazing. My mother has a 2003 Murano, and It is great to drive. The original transmission lasted 260,000 miles or so, and getting another one actually was about the same as any other automatic. The gas mileage on the car is not really good, but she has a lead foot, and it is a gigantic and powerful engine.

With the new transmissions and electronics coming, you could even program in how good you want your gas mileage. Like the throttle controllers you can buy, but straight from the factory, and able to limit power and acceleration, or make it better.

[muffin_top]

Originally Posted by why?

the fact that everything comes with AWD is a gigantic plus for me. I wish more manufacturers would do that.

Umm.. Everything has AWD?

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by why?

A Subaru WRX is a good deal, the STi though is a bit overweight and overpriced. BRZ is awesome too. I have been a huge Subaru fan for a long time, the fact that everything comes with AWD is a gigantic plus for me. I wish more manufacturers would do that.

I will say the new CVT's are amazing. My mother has a 2003 Murano, and It is great to drive. The original transmission lasted 260,000 miles or so, and getting another one actually was about the same as any other automatic. The gas mileage on the car is not really good, but she has a lead foot, and it is a gigantic and powerful engine.

With the new transmissions and electronics coming, you could even program in how good you want your gas mileage. Like the throttle controllers you can buy, but straight from the factory, and able to limit power and acceleration, or make it better.

The article in Motor trend also hinted that Subaru will also likely put this turbo engine from the 2014 Forester XT in a future BRZ Turbo and in a WRX.

[nookandcrannycar]

Just thumbed through the April Car and Driver on a quick trip to Kroger before they closed. The cover story caught my eye --- 25 cars worth waiting for -- 2 intrigued me the most ---- The 2014 Fiesta ST --- only available with a 6-speed manual......and the 2014 Ferrari F70 -- approximately 900 horsepower and lighter than a Yaris....and with an automatic transmission.

Toward the end of the issue is a test drive of the Fiesta 1.0 ( bronsin dream car? ) -- a 3 cylinder turbo with 123 HP and 43 MPG hwy and high 30s city. To be 15k base (14k base plus 1k for the 3 cylinder engine option).

[why?]

Originally Posted by muffin_top

Umm.. Everything has AWD?

yea, before the BRZ anyways, all Subarus came with awd. And good awd, not phoney fake part time awd.