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04-29-2018, 07:57 PM | #37 |
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
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Did you disconnect the immobilizer wires from the ecu?
My current set up had me running a non immobilizer ecu but i still had to disconnect 3 immo wires going into the ecu so it doesn't think that it should have an immo. If your ecu has an immo I'm not too sure what the process would be other then using Toyota techstream software are having the ecu and immo ecu (located at the ignition) properly communicate to eachother
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No one ever wants to give a Yaris the point by... |
04-29-2018, 07:58 PM | #38 |
Drives: 2018 Yaris SE 5MT Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 273
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<placeholder>
Some wiring pictures.. have been removed. New pics to be added soon! Last edited by atomic_hoji; 04-30-2018 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Remove pics; keep placeholder |
04-29-2018, 08:44 PM | #39 | |
Drives: 2018 Yaris SE 5MT Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 273
|
Quote:
Going to try a few things to troubleshoot first, but may end up with a TechStream VCI cable and a 2 day subscription. Have to see if the 2 day will do a VIN registration or immobilizer tweaking. -- Adam |
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04-29-2018, 08:52 PM | #40 |
Data doesn't lie
Drives: That Scrappy 2zrVios Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 761
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If your using an IM ECM than you have no choice but to go through the immobilizer registration process. There is no way to bypass that I know of that will work with an IMM ECM
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04-29-2018, 09:01 PM | #41 |
2ZR swap. DO IT! Ask how!
Drives: 09 Meteoric Metallic HB Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 2,333
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You're definitely into uncharted territory from our standpoint. If your ECU requires an immobilizer to work, then you have to find a way to make them happy together.
Where the hell is CTScott when you need him?? |
04-29-2018, 09:02 PM | #42 |
Drives: 2018 Yaris SE 5MT Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 273
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Hey Tom, thanks for the tidbit. Do you mean the DLC3 jumper registration as described in the workshop manual or a TechStream registration..?
-- Adam |
04-29-2018, 09:08 PM | #43 |
Drives: 2018 Yaris SE 5MT Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 273
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Hmmm... so pin pull is strictly for an immobilzer car with a non-immobilzer system only? Thought with a bypass there was a clever way to trick the ECM into thinking it had a legit signal.
Maybe Scott will see the thread and jump in with some ideas. -- Adam |
04-29-2018, 09:36 PM | #44 | |
Data doesn't lie
Drives: That Scrappy 2zrVios Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 761
|
Quote:
The only fix I’ve ever seen was to bypass the IM module if you have a non-IM ECM, or to register completely via the dealership process. I’ve hear of people getting the donor cars IM module and key to make it work as well. Another thing to consider is those guys that come and cut keys for you, I’ve heard they have a way to register keys. |
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04-29-2018, 09:51 PM | #45 |
Drives: 2018 Yaris SE 5MT Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 273
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I figure I'll give it a try again tomorrow and see if maybe disconnecting the battery right after knackered it..
Because the engine was from a wrecker I don't think I could get the transponder ECU, but I'll give them a shout in case it was saved. Good call on the mobile lock and key, may be able to make the link if they have TechStream Security access.. Have to make some calls. -- Adam |
04-30-2018, 01:58 PM | #46 |
Drives: 2018 Yaris SE 5MT Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 273
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Had a tinker this morning and..
It's ALIVE ... for real! Just posting up excitement at the moment, but she ran for about 30s while I checked belts, etc.. and she stinks bad - exhaust leak at the manifold to downpipe because the xD exhaust doesn't mate with the hangers on the Yaris.. BUT, sits and idles OK. Having a tasty beverage and heading out to run errands, pick-up kids from school, etc.. will plug away more soon. -- Adam |
04-30-2018, 02:34 PM | #47 |
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
|
Congrats buddy!
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No one ever wants to give a Yaris the point by... |
04-30-2018, 11:44 PM | #48 |
Data doesn't lie
Drives: That Scrappy 2zrVios Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 761
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OMG shit just got REAL!!!!
Congrats dude and great work!!! Now, what fixed it? Lol |
05-01-2018, 10:06 PM | #49 |
Drives: 2018 Yaris SE 5MT Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 273
|
Thanks guys!
Sorry on the delay - executive decision with nice weather to get some other things finished yesterday; poor truck must feel for attention, everything is breaking - rear caliper hung-up (fixed now), exhaust literally broke in two so the muffler is dangling, front half-shaft inner CV is sloppy and clunks around, and since I put the mud terrain summer tires back on the steering is like a battletank.. seriously, vehicle jealousy must be real. ... The short version is - FUEL! I'll put my long-winded troubleshooting below, but basically the solution was to 'jumper' the fuel pump to turn on with the ignition signal (IGN). The technical explanation and and how to implement the solution is as follows: On the Yaris pin-21 on A72 (small ECM connector) is for fuel pump control (FPC). When the ECM detects crankshaft rotation, it puts a signal to pin-21 to provide a ground. This provides power to the C/OPN relay coil in the main engine junction box (JB), closing the relay switch which provides power from the EFI Main circuit to the fuel pump; fuel pump runs steady as long as the car is running. In the iM, pin-21 on A72 is also FPC, but it works differently. When the ECM detects a need for fuel it outputs a control signal to a separate fuel pump control ECM which in turn controls the fuel pump; apparently a variable speed pump. So, at low fuel, i.e. idle, low signal, but when you hit the throttle it needs more fuel, signal increases. Before the modification, the iM ECM was basically being incorrectly used as a ground as the circuit expected from the stock Yaris ECM. It was likely working when I first fired it up as idle would have a very low fuel demand, but as the signal varied at pin-21 (I touched the throttle) I believe it was causing the C/OPN relay coil to chatter or de-energize, cutting the fuel pump and stalling. This seems to jive as the latter times I was trying to start it I was pushing the throttle in part way thinking it would help it rev and avoid stalling and it was stalling out more quickly - hence thinking < 3s the immobilizer was killing it. WARNING - this solution bypasses ECM control of the fuel pump! The factory ECM is designed to shut off the fuel pump in the event of an accident. If you do not, or are unable to, turn the ignition off in the event of an accident there is an increased risk of injury or death due to fuel system fire. Intense, but seriously, it bypasses a safety feature - always be careful, and understand what you've changed and how it impacts the vehicle.. To jumper the fuel pump to the IGN signal remove the upper half of the main engine JB, disconnect connector 1E from the bottom side of the integrated relay assembly (skinny white rectangle), and pop out pin-11 (violet). Blank the pin as it will still have a live signal from the ECM with heat shrink and/or electrical tape. From a spare harness, I grabbed a matching terminal with a length of wire, inserted the new terminal into pin-11, and ran the loose end to a body ground connection. Alternatively you can cut the violet wire leaving a pigtail and solder/crimp to existing terminal, then run to body ground. What this does is put a permanent ground on the C/OPN relay coil which, since the relay coil is only provided power when the IGN relay is energized (key to ON), it won't have power when the car is off but once the key hits ON it will energize and start the fuel pump. ... Basically, as much as the way it was behaving seemed like the immobilizer had me beat I couldn't explain why I had it fire up for the first 15s the first try. I was willing to accept maybe a fluke, but I would have sworn I had a ~6s run as well; wasn't counting so could have been wrong. It was Tom's comment about how the immobilizer would let it fire and die in 2-3s and then just crank, i.e. no combustion, that I thought some further troubleshooting was worthwhile as I each time I was getting combustion; it was just short lived and the engine literally shuddered and stalled out. There was buzzing/whine from the throttle body assembly and what I thought was the vacuum canister pump (which turned out to be the fuel pump) noises that I didn't understand either. So, I decided to run through the basics: air, fuel, spark. Air seemed like a possibility as the throttle body was making noise and the MAF sensor was a cheap Chinese purchase. I randown the MAF and drive-by-wire electrical drawings and they seemed fine as I had recalled. My solder isn't perfect, so checked the voltage at the MAF and it was fine. Pushed the throttle pedal and checked the throttle body was responding and it was. I looked up the on-vehicle checks for each and they were easy enough to check and put them on the list. Nothing obviously outstanding that was telling me air was likely the problem. Fuel was in the rail and getting into cylinders as I had combustion, but wasn't sustained. I reviewed the electrical drawings and came across the difference in the Yaris and the iM fuel pump control - which shouldn't have surprised me given the more complicated cooling fan control setup on the iM vs. the simple relay setup on the Yaris! I suspect with all the flipping back and forth of drawings when I made my original notes way back in the Fall I either missed it or accidentally looked at the same drawing for both and concluded they were the same - I caught myself on that once or twice; too many windows open at once is a setup for confusion! lol After digging into the SFI troubleshooting sections of each workshop manual and understanding better I was pretty convinced fuel was the problem - in running my start attempts through my head again it made sense that it was cutting sooner as each try I was pushing throttle in to get it to rev and avoid stalling. So, I jumpered the fuel pump to the battery before I connected anything and verified that the sound I was hearing was the fuel pump - it was - and then spent some time figuring out how to make the above solution to make the fuel pump circuit in the Yaris work with the iM FPC output. Tried it again and off to the races! (Then posted in excitement.. lol) Never got to spark, which was pretty low suspect because it had been firing and when it was at idle the short time it was behaving. ... More assembly today after work - got the interior, cowl, wiper etc.. all installed. The Injen cold air intake (CAI) just doesn't fit, so I can't get the LH headlight and bumper re-installed. I'll get the hood on and roll the car outside so I can pull the metal working stuff out and fab ECM brackets next. Once it's in place and final electrical routing and tidy-up is done I'll have to have a hack at the Injen CAI for fitment. Then: test drive. -- Adam |
05-02-2018, 03:19 AM | #50 |
Data doesn't lie
Drives: That Scrappy 2zrVios Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 761
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This is so awesome. You need to make a thread about the immobilizer registration process too, because you just proved we can use IM ECM’s.
That means every engine including a tC swap is now on the table! |
05-02-2018, 09:20 PM | #51 |
Drives: 2018 Yaris SE 5MT Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 273
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Started! - in progress.. But will keep working on making it a decent resource to follow.
LOL - it's funny you say the Scion tC. When I was first debating the swap I naturally wandered down the path of the 2AR. This led to searching for Yaris 2AR swaps, which led to the Papadakis Racing 2AR powered Corolla iM Formula Drift car, which led to YouTube, which has resulted in Formula Drift making the Family Calendar on event weekends. If I recall, the bit I found led me to believe that the engine mount setup wasn't straight forward like the 2ZR and it would have involved more frame cutting due to the length of the 2AR; also exhaust is opposite side, etc.. etc.. Ultimately, the 2ZR approach was a much more elegant solution for a boost in performance on a daily driver, so here we are! Of course, that's not to say you shouldn't have a go at the 2AR swap... and start a thread... soon... so we can couch co-pilot the build with you. -- Adam |
05-02-2018, 11:07 PM | #52 |
Data doesn't lie
Drives: That Scrappy 2zrVios Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: San Diego
Posts: 761
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Hahaha, yeah racing has a way of taking over the whole families free time. I’m just blessed with an understanding wife and very committed sponsors!
The 2AR is tempting, but I’d like to keep playing with the 2ZR since it’s lighter. Also I am interested in using the 3ZR block to do a 2.0L hybrid build one day |
05-23-2018, 11:40 AM | #53 |
Drives: 2018 Yaris SE 5MT Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 273
|
Long delay since last post.. Wish I could say I was ripping around the county with the awesomeness of the 2ZR under the hood, but unfortunately that's not the case. Had a miserable couple of weeks going back and forth to hospital, taking care of finances, etc.. for my Mum; she then passed over the holiday weekend (Victoria Day here in Canada). Feel like I've volumes or time on my hands, but on the other hand basically no time at all - probably spent most of it pacing or flopped on the couch when not actively busy with things. Got off my butt and up to some wrenching and other chores today - finding it's better to keep occupied than dwell; although, man, I needed the catch up on sleep.. Have the rest of the week off on bereavement leave to attend to services, lawyer meetings, etc.. but going to try to get some much needed updates into this and the immobilizer threads to keep focused on something enjoyable.
--- Swap update! When I took the car for a quick rip I've found that it's not firing smooth at idle and actually stalled out when I rolled into the driveway with the clutch in. So I checked the OBD2 codes and found that I have codes P030# (0 to 4 inclusive; 0: misfire on multiple cylinders, and then 1-4: misfire in respective # cylinder) and P0171: running lean; codes all pending, I suspect not stored as I haven't been through a second 'drive cycle'.. So far, I've checked the MAF and it seems to be reasonably in spec - brought it in the house and let it sit at room temp of 21C then took a measurement of the resistance and the number is at the low side of spec, which is for 20C, so it seems like it's not the culprit. I also had a run through of the connections in case there is air in-leakage, but they seem reasonably tight. Wondering if the Injen cold air intake is causing it to lean out - it is designed for a 2ZR-FE, but then the FE runs via throttle body, where-as once warm the FAE apparently throttles using the inlet valves and the throttle body is wide-open (at least that the gist of what I've read - digging into it more). Of course, piss-poor electrical connections are on the short list.. lol Ideas for troubleshooting appreciated as I'm sure there will be things I'm overlooking. -- Adam |
05-23-2018, 11:42 AM | #54 | |
Drives: 2018 Yaris SE 5MT Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 273
|
Quote:
Love the idea of playing with the 3ZR to make a 2.0L setup. From what I've seen, but without pulling one apart, I think the ZR is really the little sister to the AR and has the potential to produce power in the same way - obviously scaled. But I bet a lot of the same tricks will work, if you can find the supporting parts. Have my mind on the idea of doing a 2ZR-FE teardown and documenting it; can't let that get on the radar until the Yaris is resolved and I clear out some truck stuff - my wife's understanding does have limits... lol -- Adam |
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Tags |
2zr, 2zr-fe, 3rd gen, t-sport |
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