2016 US FE standards!

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by supmet

Ozone, which is the major component of smog, is a strong respiratory irritant and oxidant. Ozone levels tend to be highest in the summer and in the late morning and early afternoon. Short-term exposures can produce dyspnea, chest pain, and airways reactivity. Children who regularly participate in outdoor sports during days on which ozone pollution is high are more likely to develop asthma. Long-term exposure to ozone produces a small, permanent decrease in lung function.

http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec05/ch057/ch057b.html

Do you remember the odor? Ozone has a smell akin to the odor produced by lightning, which is a large generator of the gas.

Here's what an online MSDS has to say about Ozone....

"Causes dryness of the mouth, coughing, and irritates the nose, throat, and chest. May cause difficulty in breathing, headache, and fatigue. The characteristic sharp, irritating odor is readily detectable at low concentrations (0.01 to 0.05 ppm).

OSHA PEL limits follow...

Exposure Guidelines:
OSHA PEL: 0.10-ppm PEL/TLV

If you read this carefully you'll note that you can smell Ozone at OSHA PEL levels... Did you in fact smell ozone?

Here's the "money shot"....

"Ozone is an unstable gas which, at normal temperatures, decomposes to diatomic oxygen."

http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/ozone_msds.htm


This is from a European Site...

"Toxicity data

IHL-HMN TCLO thought to be near 1 ppm/2h.
IHL-CAT LC50 34500 ppb/3h
IHL-GPG LC50 24800 ppb/3h
IHL-HAM LC50 10500 ppb/4h
IHL-HMN LCLO 50 ppm/30m

LC50 lethal concentration 50 percent kill
LCLo lowest published lethal concentration
LD50 lethal dose 50 percent kill
LDlo lowest published lethal dose

http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/OZ/ozone.html

The long and short of it is that I don't think you had problems with Ozone. If you had problems they weren't large enough to warrant a trip to the Hospital, where a competent person would have evaluated you for the CAUSE of your complaints (and your suppositions of same decades later).

Originally Posted by supmet

go away now

edit: can't believe I'm coming back to argue with someone who thinks pollution doesn't hurt the lungs, but

http://www.lungusa.org/site/c.dvLUK9...2/Rankings.htm

LA is #1 for short term and year round particulates..

also, people who live in LA don't usually have chest pain either, but coming from very low pollution to heavy will cause chest pain. Its just like smoking cigarettes. Someone who has smoked for years doesn't even feel it going down. A first time smoker will cough out a lung.

I'll take your little snit as confirmation that nobody took you to the ER. Otherwise you'd have furnished proof of respiratory distress. You might have had reaction to pollen, fungi, food, or some other environmental assault. You just THINK you were affected and use this supposition as "justification" to launch onto someone who doesn't share your joy at our Almighty Government saving us from industry.

Look, do your homework. Where I come from I deal with facts and the facts do not necessarily support your claims of past injuries or support your current joys at Our Masters in DC telling us what we're gonna be driving.

Gene

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

Tapping your phone is okay, is it? Silly me, I would have thought that would have interfered with a right to privacy...

But if it's okay with you, I must be wrong.

Well they only tap suspected terrorists OUTSIDE of the country. I guess that still upsets you. You don't mind the idea of taking away people's right to choose the car they want, but you sure are upset over tapping suspected terrorist.

It no wonder an idiot like Obama won!

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by ka0sx

why are you still wasting precious oxygen?

Why did your mother not practice good birth control?

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by aeipee13

daf thinks people's political views are FOXnews or MSNBC. In reality, there is a lot of left, right, up, and down views. Visit the coast sometime daf. Just because I want to be able to smoke weed in the streets doesn't mean i don't want to be doing it with open borders and no military power. Maybe I want to execute murderers and rapists but think a woman still has a right to choose. Just open your eyes. everyone is different and we all live here together.

I can assure you I have a good grasp of the wide range of people's political views and news choices. You just appear to exhibit the intelligence of a brain dead liberal!

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by aeipee13

tweedle dee


tweedle dumb


the LA basin has been the nations worst air for years. Pittsburgh beat out LA in 2008 and you're proud of that? air pollution is a problem if it comes from a car or factory. I think it's really bold to call either Bush or Obama a dictator or say they are acting like one. What's your plan and what would you do if you where the leader of our nation? How would you silence the people who want to see you taking action?

What are you doing to make things better? Complaining about Neo-cons is for pussies not Americans. You bought your Yaris for economic reasons or environmental ones. Laws requiring the US to join the rest of the world and pushing car technology forward is a good thing.

If the Good Ol' Boys can't handle it they should loose there jobs like so many other hard working Americans. I don't think we should have bailed those assholes out in the first place. We should have bailed out the factory workers the CEOs screwed over with their lack of foresight and creativity. Then found them new CEOs with some vision because the Good Ol' Boys won't act unless a law is passed.

*yawn*

Did you know that one of our "ozone detectors" is parked in Clairton, home of Kopper Chemical's Coking plant? Doesn't sound like a spot with an "average" concentration, huh?

Did you also know that Pittsburgh has the second highest number of rainy days in the US after Seattle? How is it that San Fransisco does so well with their fog but nasty old Pittsburgh with its frequent rains does worse than LA?

Sounds to me like someone is rigging the numbers.... but hey, if it saves one life it's worth it, huh?

By the way, watch who you call a "good ole boy". Lot of folks out this way are honest folk who just want to make a living. We don't need your kind butting in to our lives.

Gene

[GeneW]

Here's GASP's view on the topic....

"Today the American Lung Association (ALA) released its 2009 State of the Air report. Once again, the Pittsburgh metropolitan area was ranked worst in the nation for short term fine particle pollution (PM 2.5). In past years the ALA’s findings have attracted significant attention in the Pittsburgh region, and several misconceptions about the nature of the ALA’s findings have become widely accepted. GASP has created this fact sheet in an effort to correct some of the more common misconceptions and provide a concise summary of the ALA’s findings as they apply to the Pittsburgh region."

I appreciate GASP clarifying the monitoring status of Clairton, but I already knew that they had other stations.

This is interesting....

"During the 2005-2007 period examined in the current ALA report, values from eight to twelve PM 2.5 monitor sites in Allegheny County were examined each day and the highest value was selected. This same selection methodology is employed in each of the 527 counties studied."

Not the average or mean but the worst value.... samples from how many monitors in total around this area? They do not say, only that the values of eight to twelve such monitors were "selected" and the "worse value taken".

The rest of the area's air could be as clean as that found in the Amazon basin, but the "data" here is based upon the "worst value". As if the rest of the area's air reflected this value or something more or less....

Where I come from this is not exactly good science.... but what do I know? I don't pretend to want to save the children or make Big Brother drop his mighty fist on those "exploiters".

Gene

[GeneW]

One other thing....

Acetlyaldehyde is produced in the brain and liver by the consumption of alcohol. It's the chemical that actually makes you "drunk".

It's also used to make plastics...

Here's the MSDS..

Engineering Controls: Use explosion-proof ventilation equipment. Facilities storing or utilizing this material should be equipped with an eyewash facility and a safety shower. Use adequate general or local exhaust ventilation to keep airborne concentrations below the permissible exposure limits.
Exposure Limits
Chemical Name ACGIH NIOSH OSHA - Final PELs

Acetaldehyde 25 ppm Ceiling 2000 ppm IDLH 200 ppm TWA; 360 mg/m3 TWA

OSHA Vacated PELs: Acetaldehyde : 100 ppm TWA; 180 mg/m3 TWA

Now here's my question....

Ozone is some sort of awful thing, like phosgene gas. Yet here was have a chemical which has PELs maybe one thousand times higher to breathe...but it's okie fine to drink a precursor of the stuff.


Reminds me of Limbaugh's little program about "dihydrogen monoxide". Stuff is lethal, people drown every day.

Gene

[supmet]

Originally Posted by GeneW

The long and short of it is that I don't think you had problems with Ozone.

Neither do I - want a cookie?

I just googled pollution chest pain to shut you up and that merck site was the first thing that popped up.

I don't care if you think pollution causes chest pain - you have proven time and time again you will think what you want to think, and no amount of reasoning or proof will change that. It is a simple fact, and I'm not going to waste any more of my time arguing this point.

[aeipee13]

Originally Posted by daf62757

I can assure you I have a good grasp of the wide range of people's political views and news choices. You just appear to exhibit the intelligence of a brain dead liberal!

stoned out of my mind liberal is more accurate. but really I'm not. You just live a sheltered life. Stay in your bubble and have fun.

I voted for Ron Paul who is Republican and I am registered Independent. I even have more than one nationality and more than one skin tone in my family. Does that clear things up?

Welcome to the real world Neo.

[aeipee13]

Gene, you're not a good ol' boy the Auto CEOs are. I think i don't get your point about air pollution in your area versus mine or maybe i just don't care to decypher your rant.

To answer your question about Ozone. Ozone creates free radicals to form in the blood, which last time i checked is not a good thing. If you want the science go talk to your doctor.

Does it really matter exactly what chemical or particle of dust is causing breathing problems. It's smog and smog makes your lungs hurt. You can break down what smog is made of elsewhere.

[Astroman]

Done.