In regards to understeer.......

[cleong]

How are you entering corners, on power or off power? It is usually recommended to finish all your braking in a straightline, and feather your throttle through the turn until you reach the apex where you nail it to the floor.

On the other hand, the Yaris's seat is particularly high, which may amplify the G-forces beyond what you are familiar with. Physics remain the same regardless of which car you're in.

[Tamago]

trail braking in a smaller FWD car seems to help VERY much with rotation

[scape]

@ tamago,
downtown ftl is nice ;D although riverfront has changed a bit over the years, bit more run down now haha

[regal]

Originally Posted by cleong

On the other hand, the Yaris's seat is particularly high, which may amplify the G-forces beyond what you are familiar with. Physics remain the same regardless of which car you're in.

Agree on the seat, Need to find a way to lean it back.

[TheRealEnth]

the flooring at the apex is the most important part...

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by anonymous user

Loren,

I'm actually coming from AWD. My goal in the next few years is to practice FWD first (the yaris), then pick up a RWD vehicle to learn that platform. I was thinking mr-2, lotus elise, or 370 z. We'll see. I'm working on FWD for now.

There is your problem.

You can't drive a FWD or RWD car like an AWD car.

You can't get on the gas to straighten the car out and the car will not turn if you are threashold breaking and start to turn. It sounds like you are overdriving the car into the corners.

Think of a FWD car as only being able to do one thing at a time. It can either go, steer or brake. Near the limit you can only do one of these things at a time. As you get better you will learn how to blend them together.

Do your breaking before the corner, take a smooth line off power to the apex then get back to the gas on corner exit.

A Yaris is a momentum car. If the front or rear tires are sliding you are doing it wrong, and losing time.

[scape]

is engine braking recommended at all before the apex while going into a sharp turn?

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by scape

is engine braking recommended at all before the apex while going into a sharp turn?

depends on many factors.

alignment setup
tires being used
tire pressures
what gear you're in/how fast you're going


sometime swing by the shop i'll take you for a spin, show you what i'm talking about :D

[regal]

how much toe out is recomended in the rear?

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by regal

how much toe out is recomended in the rear?

if you can get 0 toe, that's ideal. i'm running 1/8" toe out each side

[jkuchta]

Originally Posted by largeorangefont

There is your problem.

You can't drive a FWD or RWD car like an AWD car.

You can't get on the gas to straighten the car out and the car will not turn if you are threashold breaking and start to turn. It sounds like you are overdriving the car into the corners.

Think of a FWD car as only being able to do one thing at a time. It can either go, steer or brake. Near the limit you can only do one of these things at a time. As you get better you will learn how to blend them together.

Do your breaking before the corner, take a smooth line off power to the apex then get back to the gas on corner exit.

A Yaris is a momentum car. If the front or rear tires are sliding you are doing it wrong, and losing time.

Actually, the yaris HB on stock suspension responds quite well to trail-braking. With the upgraded rear pads, my little hatch was turning in and taking a set really well at the Roval. Plus, the added weight transfer on the front end provided by the trail-braking allowed for slightly higher entry speeds in the moderate to slower corners (turn 3..right after NASCAR turn 2, that hairpin that leads onto the infield straight under the pedestrian bridge, and the final set of lefts which lead back onto the front tri-oval.....just to name a few).

BEWARE!! Trail-braking can get you into trouble if you do it wrong! Learn how to enter corners fast off the brakes first (like Largeorangefont says!), and then learn how to enter them faster on the brakes.

Also, being smooth getting OFF of the brakes is just as important (maybe even more so) as being smooth getting on the brakes. You can brake harder if the car is settled.

[jkuchta]

Originally Posted by scape

is engine braking recommended at all before the apex while going into a sharp turn?

Never enter a corner with the clutch pedal depressed.

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by jkuchta

Actually, the yaris HB on stock suspension responds quite well to trail-braking. With the upgraded rear pads, my little hatch was turning in and taking a set really well at the Roval. Plus, the added weight transfer on the front end provided by the trail-braking allowed for slightly higher entry speeds in the moderate to slower corners (turn 3..right after NASCAR turn 2, that hairpin that leads onto the infield straight under the pedestrian bridge, and the final set of lefts which lead back onto the front tri-oval.....just to name a few).

BEWARE!! Trail-braking can get you into trouble if you do it wrong! Learn how to enter corners fast off the brakes first (like Largeorangefont says!), and then learn how to enter them faster on the brakes.

Also, being smooth getting OFF of the brakes is just as important (maybe even more so) as being smooth getting on the brakes. You can brake harder if the car is settled.

Agreed, and trailbreaking does help the car rotate, but you just can slam the brakes, throw it into the corner and power out like you might be able to with an AWD car.

There is a difference between trail-braking and late-breaking. From the discussions here it sounds like most people are trying to overdrive the car into the corners.

[regal]

What about these ULTRA RACING rear under braces seems these would firm up the rear and help with the understeer?

[anonymous user]

Originally Posted by SailDesign

And you still haven't mentioned tire pressures - they are as important as susp. upgrades - really!
But that would be beating the dead horse again, so I'l shut up - none so deaf as those that won't listen....
(not you, Tamago, the OP)

Are you referring to me? What am I NOT listening to?

[anonymous user]

Originally Posted by largeorangefont

There is your problem.

You can't drive a FWD or RWD car like an AWD car.

You can't get on the gas to straighten the car out and the car will not turn if you are threashold breaking and start to turn. It sounds like you are overdriving the car into the corners.

Think of a FWD car as only being able to do one thing at a time. It can either go, steer or brake. Near the limit you can only do one of these things at a time. As you get better you will learn how to blend them together.

Do your breaking before the corner, take a smooth line off power to the apex then get back to the gas on corner exit.

A Yaris is a momentum car. If the front or rear tires are sliding you are doing it wrong, and losing time.

I figured just as much. I've been told to drive this thing like a early 90's miata, except this car has no power, so i'll avoid using unnecessary braking.
I've completely smoked the front brakes, and as impressive as it was for spectators, it didn't help my times out much.
We have about a month to go before i can report on the status of out first event of the scca season.
Until tehn, i'll be anxiously awaiting my turn by reading about everyone elses regions.

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by regal

What about these ULTRA RACING rear under braces seems these would firm up the rear and help with the understeer?

If you want to waste your money, sure.


If you want to spend it on something that will help, get their 23mm rear sway bar, a performance alignment and shim the rear hubs.

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by anonymous user

I figured just as much. I've been told to drive this thing like a early 90's miata, except this car has no power, so i'll avoid using unnecessary braking.
I've completely smoked the front brakes, and as impressive as it was for spectators, it didn't help my times out much.
We have about a month to go before i can report on the status of out first event of the scca season.
Until tehn, i'll be anxiously awaiting my turn by reading about everyone elses regions.

If you concentrate on keeping up momentum and not sliding the car you will be much faster and easier on equipment.