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06-14-2012, 01:55 PM | #55 | |
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Love this project. I think it would be easier to take the general idea and make them from scratch in production runs. The flange will be the same on each one and positioned correctly, for example, as opposed to making each one as an individual project. Would bring the cost down as well.
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06-14-2012, 02:11 PM | #56 |
I would possibly be interested in a finished product if it made power.
I understand what MI is saying about a mass produced piece and fitment. I think what tooter is doing is awesome for himself or as a DIY. I honestly just like the look of the metal intake manifold vs the plastic one. if you do dyno before and after, I (and several others) would love to know the power delta with and without. |
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06-14-2012, 06:51 PM | #57 | |||
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Quote:
When you say "make them from scratch", do you mean like buying tubing and getting it mandrel bent and building the throttle body base? Don't think I'm ready to go quite that far just yet! Remember, all this began with the idea to make just one manifold because I saw that the guy from Puerto Rico did it! Quote:
I went to my neighbor's big machine shop in town and showed him the project. He said that I'd do much better with a CNC machine. (I didn't realize that he didn't have one) He said that one of his machinists could make one flange, but it would take a day doing it from scratch on a mill and would cost about $1,000. So I went to two guys who have a this huge CNC machine in their garage and were running their own business. I already knew them because I had installed the wiring that runs their machine. The beauty of a CNC (Computer Numerical Control) is that once the file for the parts are generated, the machine can make 1 or 1,000 all uniformly the same. After the first one, any number can be made on demand at any time. When the old Corolla manifolds were manufactured, the runners were all stuck into identically machined flanges so they all ended up exactly in the same position. The machinist said that's no problem in that he can capture a profile of the runners as well as the profile of the head intake configuration, and the computer will generate the information to create a seamlessly smooth transition blending their difference from the outer surface of the flange to the inner surface. the flange will even have all of the original Yaris 0 type gasket grooves to accept an OEM gasket. It will also have a recess on the outer surface into which the runners will be inserted to insure they remain in the proper position during welding. Quote:
It's a win/win situation for both of us. ...and you're exactly right that from my point of view, no wealth is created until a part is actually sold. Last edited by tooter; 06-14-2012 at 10:23 PM. |
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06-14-2012, 11:17 PM | #58 |
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How about loping off plenum also...which would allow the runners to be repositioned...then make a new yaris specific plenum...? Not really too much work...and to be honest the corolla plenum is but ugly on the outside. And one could do like a reverse merge collector for a smooth transition into each runner.
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06-15-2012, 12:09 AM | #59 |
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Jeez... my mind is already going a million miles a minute on all the possibilities. But for now it's staying focusing on addressing just one detail at a time so as not to break the natural unfolding order of the flow of events.
I do understand what you mean, which is why I like this particular manifold design so much. It's just a backwards equal length 4-1 header. Heck, if something flows one way, it'll flow the other. I was even wondering about a backwards 4-2-1 header intake manifold design like the Weapon R and if it would produce more torque with the alternately firing cylinders drawing from the same runner the same way they do on the header. The intake on my truck is a 8-4-1. Also thinking about chopping the runners where they are all parallel with each other and lengthening them with some short straight tubing sections. That's just a few ideas... there's lots more, as the possibilities are endless. Anyways, tomorrow I'll be back at the machine shop to go over some more manifold details. This is no end of fun. Last edited by tooter; 06-15-2012 at 02:15 AM. |
06-15-2012, 05:03 PM | #60 |
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Well, the project is under way...
...and I get to get to see the whole manufacturing process. From CAD design, to 3D rendering, generating the operating code, to watching the CNC actually make the first parts. We're starting out with producing just one prototype set of adapters. Then comes assembly and welding. They know a first rate highly experienced professional welder who does beautiful work. Then I'll be installing it on my car to work out all the fitment, alignment, clearance, and operating issues. Oooh... this is so exciting. Last edited by tooter; 06-15-2012 at 05:37 PM. |
06-15-2012, 08:41 PM | #61 |
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I have a buddy who did Mech Eng @ Waterloo, he said the corolla type of intake is hard to get right, even with complex modelling software... he had access to Ricardo Wave (look it up, it's used by automakers).
Hope it works out though, be awesome to get a low dollar intake that does soemthing :)
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06-15-2012, 09:25 PM | #62 |
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question is "will it still be low when it is all said and done?" I don't know what the fab and flange are going to run but if it does some magic and adds ponies for lass than 250 i'm in for one once Micro Image gets the specs and make me one in red ;)
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06-15-2012, 09:40 PM | #63 | |
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Quote:
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06-15-2012, 10:00 PM | #64 | |
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Quote:
And remember... Toyota holds the decisive edge with the latest cutting edge technology computer modelling and the unlimited ability of plastic to be injection molded into any conceivable shape. I'm just recycling a 14 year old junk yard part. So my only edge is that it was designed to flow for engine that's 20% larger than the 1NZ-FE. Last edited by tooter; 06-16-2012 at 08:54 PM. |
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06-16-2012, 05:12 PM | #65 |
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Been nosing around the internet and found the very strange Prius manifold that also fits the Yaris engine...
It was designed to operate optimally within a very narrow range between 2,180 to 2,470 rpm. |
06-16-2012, 05:29 PM | #66 |
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I wonder what Prius operates within that rpm range.
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06-16-2012, 09:00 PM | #67 |
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I certainly could be wrong, Garm...
...but got that operating range from a Japanese Prius site that had all sorts of technical data on the Prius engine. I believe that's why the engine uses such a strange intake manifold. If it was designed for optimal operating over a wide rpm rate like a regular car and not as a battery charger, I think it would have had a manifold just like ours is. That manifold design is the same as stationary utility engines that only run at a preset speed. |
06-16-2012, 09:27 PM | #68 | |
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Wow...
Look at this! This is exactly what I was referring to... an equal length runner header design used in reverse flow for an intake manifold. Looks like a plenum is added onto it so that it can be tuned by size. And by the way... look at the mounting flange. It fits a Yaris engine. There's also some really informative text along with the pics. It's worth reading: Quote:
Here's a link to the whole thing. It's called the Toyota Limo Project http://limoku.blogspot.com/2010/10/c...his-first.html Check the materials... he got a bunch of stuff from Micro Image! Last edited by tooter; 06-16-2012 at 09:44 PM. |
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06-16-2012, 11:44 PM | #69 | |
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cool find though! This thread will have every manifold possibility in it.
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06-17-2012, 01:21 AM | #70 | |
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Yes I hope so, as I thoroughly enjoy exploring all of the possibilities with every kind of search available to turn up everyone's ideas from all over the world.
This design is highly intriguing because it's exactly like a header... And for a one off scratchbuilt manifold, it's impeccably assembled. But notice, it has one drawback... ...the runners are not equal length because it's impossible to execute this design without some of the runners going in the opposite direction before they meet in the collector. But then again, it was built specifically for forced induction so that would likely mitigate the runners' inequalities... ...whereas these runners are all equal length which is best for a normally aspirated engine. This bit about plenum design caught my eye... Quote:
I'm still avidly searching the web, so anything else that turns up, you'll see it here. Last edited by tooter; 06-17-2012 at 02:21 AM. |
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06-17-2012, 02:28 AM | #71 |
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Here's that same Corolla manifold with Individual Throttle Body Injectors...
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06-17-2012, 02:32 AM | #72 |
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Here's that same manifold on a VW GTI...
They're turning up everywhere! |
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