T Montague's 2zr swap - '08 m/t sedan some extra info

[tmontague]

I've been able to drive my car in the snow quite a bit in the past month or so and I feel like it's been enough to give a good quality update on my experience. Keep in mind this is my first time driving a car with an LSD.

I have 4 winter tires (more of an ice tire) that are relatively new as well. There seem to be two camps on line in regards to driving an LSD in snow: 1. It will help increase traction by giving you a true 2wd car instead of the realistic 1wd that open diffs give you once they slip. 2. They actually make snow/ice driving worse.

To me #1 always seemed to make more sense. In this case I'm talking about a clutch type lsd, a torsen type will not do a whole lot when your one tire is free wheeling with no traction. A clutch type lsd will lock up regardless if one wheel is free spinning.

After a month of driving in snow the only time I can see an LSD being dangerous is under hard acceleration on slick conditions. This still entirely depends on driver input, so not actually the fault of the LSD but rather the driver. If one decides to give too much throttle during cornering in icy conditions then since the axles are locked causing both tires to spin you will under steer much much more than with an open diff. This is due to both tires losing traction and not just one. This leaves you with zero traction on the front which leads you to under steer. This is easily controlled by not giving too much throttle on corners or by backing off the throttle if you start to slide and you will regain control.

In deep snow or slippery conditions the grip has improved drastically. Instead of hearing the right wheel spin up and the car barely inch forward, I now notice much less wheel spin and the car pulls forward consistently. Not like an awd obviously but it is more consistent in the progress forward.

Performance wise (as best as I can with snow tires on) torque steer is essentially zero. I can go WOT (now with much less wheel spin) and the car doesn't pull left or right. The steering wheel under throttle actually has a tendency to want to self correct back to neutral, quite powerfully actually.

Overall the car feel more planted, firm and in control, even in snow.

As for the bad:

I still have a transmission clunk that seems to happen on left turns when giving a decent amount of throttle. This does not sound or feel like axle bind, that problem was fixed with swapping in Tercel axle. It sounds exactly like the transmission hitting the subframe. This is likely due to the LSD putting extra torque out from the transmission to both wheel leading to different forces on the mounts causing excess movement.

My plan to remedy this is to get a dogbone mount machined from solid aluminum which should severely limit movement.

Overall I'm really pleased with the LSD, it really transforms the car into more of a purpose built "sports car". My gas mileage is now at about 7.1L/100km up from 6.3L/100km when I originally put the 2zr in Lfwiw it was at 5.8L/100 km with my 1nz). That said I am also on winter gas and snow tires so realistically I am probably sitting at 6.7L/100km with the 4.3 FD. The only time the LSD makes a lot of noise is when the trans fluid is still cold. Once it heats up the LSD is very quiet.

[ArmstrongRacing]

I'm happy to hear the trans is proving its worth, and that you understand (and have shared) how to properly use the throttle. haha

I still dont know why your car continues to make clunking noises when mine did not. I still have a silent drivetrain even after swapping to the 6 speed. I need to buy another LSD at some point, maybe Ill try a torsion this time so I can compare

[tmontague]

I have no idea either, Toyota was obviously aware of the potential as they made the xd left side axle slightly shorter but I can't explain why you never seemed to have the issue. My car was never in an accident that I'm aware of and there is no evidence to ever say it was.

The noise/banging I'm hearing now is simply the war of the trans hitting the subframe. My only guess is I prematurely wore out my fluid filled passenger side mount from moving the engine up and down with it still connected when removing my trans twice. However the doggone mostly is the only mount controlling that engine movement and mine is fully poly filled.

I'm hoping the solid billet doggone will fix the issue, if not it isn't that bad and shouldn't be an issue on the track. Problem is the xd is such a rare car that there is little to no aftermarket for it other than show parts.

As for the torsen lsd, I've never used one but I was originally conceded about dding a clutch type based on online comments. After having daily'd it for the past little while, it is no issue at all. Most comments online is the same comment regurgitated, very few people spoke from experience.

If costs were equal, I'd go clutch type every time. Never have to worry about lifting a wheel or having minimal grip on the inside causing it to act like an open. Yes, eventually the clutches will need to be replaced but according to many users online the cusco 1 way lsd last a darn long time. Not many draw backs of you like to hear your car and feel everything. If you want oem comfort and silence than torsen is a great compromise.

I've been very please this far

[tmontague]

Finally picked up my new summer tires and had them mounted to my new Konig Hypergram 15x7.5
tires are 195/55 r15 and are as wide as most 205's
treadwear is 340







can't wait for spring to get these things on the road!

[atomic_hoji]

Nice!

Congrats on the beauty wheel and tire setup. Should look slick man.

-- Adam

[Jeanseb29]

What brand of tires did you choose Tmontague? I can't tell from the photos... I'm currently looking for summer tires with same dimensions (195/55r15) for a set of Rota circuit 8 (15x6.5) I found on Kijiji before winter. I might go with Yoko s-drive but still not decided yet.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

[deng]

The hypergrams look great!

Jean, those are BF Goodrich G Force Sport 2s.

[tmontague]

Yup, Deng is correct bfg g force sport comp 2's. I forgot to put that in my post. In any other tire I would have went 205 but these bad boys are wide.

I chose they over any other UHP tire as we get a decent amount of rain where I live. I was tired of having to limp my Yaris around whenever it rained so I wanted a tire that performed well in the wet. The reviews on the sport comp 2's are some of the best and excellent in the wet. Made sense especially with their price. Found them on eBay for approx $64 a corner. Stupid cheap and better performing than many others.

[thebarber]

Nice!

[malibuguy]

64 a piece hotdamn

[tmontague]

Originally Posted by malibuguy

64 a piece hotdamn

Yup stupid good price. This was slightly cheaper than DTD's latest sale price. With mounting and taxes at the border I ended up paying $370 CAD! The cheapest I could find them in Canada all in was $600 CAD.

The reason why they were marked down cheaper is likely due to the fact that they were manufactured midway through 2015. This shouldn't be an issue for me as this tire probably won't last more than 3 years before it's down to the wear bars. This puts it at 6 years old which is when I ideally like to get new tires (if I have the cash).

If I ever get to the track and it's raining I plan on using these as well as for any autox I do this year. My slicks take too long to hear up for autox and are downright greasy when cold.

[thebarber]

nothing wrong with new old stock

[tmontague]

Originally Posted by thebarber

nothing wrong with new old stock

Absolutely not as long as they aren't a decade old and dry rotted lol. 2 and a half years is no problem and a faster wearing tire

[tmontague]

Thought I'd toss out an update on what I've done thus far. In preparation for my first upcoming track day of 2018 at the end of next week I spent some time this week working on the car. I now have my summer rubber and rims mounted (BF Goodrich sport comp 2's) they are a 340 tread wear tire and F%ck these things grip like you wouldn't believe.

I have been constantly pushing them harder and harder and not even a squeal form either corner. They just grip more the harder you push them - highly recommend these for a spirited DD'r that sees a lot of rain

I recently decided to get my car a proper corner balance and race alignment at a somewhat local race shop to me. My current alignment specs are as follows:

Rear: Camber L-1.42 R-1.48
Total toe -0.18 (toe out)

Front: camber L-2.6 R-2.5
total toe -0.08 (toe out)

according to the alignment guy who is a well decorated racer and has a couple decades of experience building suspension and doing alignment on race cars the set up is optimised for the track but still conservative enough where it will still be able to drive in snow on roads without spinning out all the time. The rear end toe was properly corrected using shims which was never perfect due to my camber washers I was using.



I'm still blown away at how light these cars are, without me in the car it came in at 2370lbs give or take and that was with a 3/4 tank of gas. My initial impressions on the drive home was how fast the turn in is now. The difference is night and day, almost as if I have a close ratio steering rack now. You have to be very aware driving the car now as a slight movement in the steering wheel will cause the car to quickly flick left or right. The cars feels much more stable now and planted and the suspension doesn't feel as jumpy in the rear end.

I installed some new rotors up front as the others were fairly glazed and getting rusty from this winter. I didn't go for the Stoptech slotted rotors as they would have been $150 CAD for both off of RockAuto. Instead i went for the Stoptech regular rotors that are coated to prevent rust. They cost $48 CAD for both. I couldn't justify the extra $100 for the slotted/directional ones, not on a car this light.

I also threw in some new spark plugs, the Denso's did the job and had about 125k km on them so I threw in some NGK's. If I was just DDing the car I would have left the Denso's in there but seeing as my car gets driven fairly hard and often, I figured the NGK's weren't a bad idea and now at least I know I'm starting fresh. As usual I also re greased all of the ignition connectors.

I also tuned up the brakes and re lubed all the sliders and contact points as the high heat from the track isn't friendly to keeping these things running smooth. I used high temp grease that came with the Hawk brake pads. I have about 300km of track driving on these pads and they still have 50% life left, so pretty impressive. They are the Hawk HPS pads and I daily on these as well.

Lastly I installed a 2.5 lb BC type fire extinguisher and to mount it I used a product called the Bracketeer. I ended up mounting it behind the passenger seat as it is a great position for offsetting the driver weight and it is very easy to access with a slight reach around.



having it in front of the driver seat wouldn't work with the stock Yaris seat brackets due to my seat position and the steering wheel gets in the way of easily accessing it anyways. Plus it just adds weight to the wrong side of the car. This is something I really wanted in my car. A cart fire is a very quick way to ruin something you've spent countless hours on and it is also a terrible way to die if the worst case scenario ever happens. A fire extinguisher will help you quite a bit in either scenario.

I chose a BC type over an ABC type as the A is for wood fires and is a very corrosive chemical to metal and electrical wires. Cars are fine with BC type extinguishers and other than a lot of mess from the dry powder it tends to not corrode your car and leads to less damage you have to repair if you ever have to use your extinguisher. This particular extinguisher is good for 10 seconds which is pretty good as many tend to only last 5secs.

After a lot of thinking and talking to some people including my wife I have changed future plans in terms of what car I will be using as a dedicated track build. I'll save this for another post - hint, it starts with a Y and ends in aris...

[ern-diz]

[tmontague]

Did a shakedown on Friday after about 8 months away from the track. Weather was about 6 degrees (C) ambient temps and off and on drizzle of rain. The BFG R1's I'm running never got up to temps and stayed squirmy each session. I timed my first session and was a few seconds slower than my fastest lap last year.

By the 3rd session I blew a rear tire which sent me in a spin and into the grass a bit. Turns out I picked up a screw or nail and when it ripped out it lost all the air suddenly and I lost control. Luckily I'll be able to patch/plug the tire from the inside and hopefully still get some more track days on the rubber. There is still some left in them and indidnt want to have to scrap the tires so soon.

The R1's are a great tire for hour long racing and stick like hell, but if you do track days in cool temps then youre better off with the r1s. The Yaris is a light car so tires take longer to heat up

My car ran great, oil temps peaked at 250F and I had no issues. I still have the transmission banging on the subframe under hard shifts so I'll have to build a proper poly mount soon, the one i currently have installed was half assed and not stiff enough.

Not a great day on the track, but my expectations were also too high. In the future I won't be timing my first session of the year, especially when the tires aren't heating up. I'll be back again in 3 weeks with hopefully hotter ambient temps and no rain.

As a side note, i got to try my sport comp 2's in the rain and wow do they ever hook up. Hell, they almost ran better than my r1's when it was dry.

[DarkShadowFox]

I looked into the 2zrfe swap and i think i will be doing it too seems to be almost a direct drop in like legos. will be nice cause its about 37 pounds lighter then the 1zfe at more displacement and more power for the cost of nothing. also you get to go to 5x100 which allows bigger and better things :D

[enviri]

Originally Posted by DarkShadowFox

will be nice cause its about 37 pounds lighter then the 1zfe at more displacement and more power for the cost of nothing.

*21.8 kg heavier.