PETERPOOP's Turbo Build Thread. - Page 6 - Toyota Yaris Forums

PETERPOOP · 12-11-2010, 10:58 PM

Well if you plan on doing a built motor in the future, you would be perfect for the test. ;)

I would think you could hit 200whp with 10lbs of boost. If not, it would be close, I think.

cali yaris · 12-12-2010, 12:06 AM

^ I think so too.

rob323 · 12-12-2010, 04:06 PM

The injectors could quite well be getting max'd out cause the fuel pressure system has no reference to manifold pressure in a stock (return-less) fuel system. If you can raise the fuel pressure as boost increases, it would give you substantial headroom in that side of things. The other problem is that the injectors may not be spraying optimally when having to fight against the boost pressure in the manifold.

Bluevitz-rs · 12-12-2010, 05:08 PM

I just thought of another problem you guys might be having with tunning... the stock fuel pump is a 2 speed unit. I forget exactly how it operates, but it goes something like, "low speed at idle and cruse" and "high speed under acceleration".

If someone has a repair manual, they should be able to confirm this. Because this could be causing the fuel pressure to jump around

cdydjded · 12-12-2010, 05:45 PM

Rob & Blue stole my thunder, I think also the the fuel pump might be an issue.

cali yaris · 12-12-2010, 08:24 PM

Has anyone else had trouble with fuel pressure or the pump at low boost? Seems like everyone would, or no one would.

rob323 · 12-12-2010, 10:06 PM

But has anyone with a stock system monitored the fuel pressure while under boost? no point having 40 psi of fuel pressure at idle if the injectors are just dribbling fuel out when under boost even when at 100% duty cycle.

I don't know over there, but the one Aussie Yaris pump I have pulled out was about the same size as a D cell battery. The pump in the Echo is almost twice the size in comparison.

cdydjded · 12-13-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali yaris

Has anyone else had trouble with fuel pressure or the pump at low boost? Seems like everyone would, or no one would.

Like Rob said before me, not one person here is monitoring fuel pressure. Our car as you well know uses a returnless fuel system, fuel pressure is static @ +/-40psi. All the injector in the world cannot supply enough fuel if the fuel pump is not doing it job. BTW when you ran 8psi didnt you have your fuel system converted to a return system?

cali yaris · 12-13-2010, 10:09 AM

I had 100% stock fuel system at 8 psi. With larger injectors.

I still don't understand why only one person would experience the problem, nor did you explain that point, since you say injectors can't be his problem.

Your experience is helpful -- Just quoting a pressure number doesn't help me understand.

Quote:

Like Rob said before me, not one person here is monitoring fuel pressure.

I am now, but I don't think that's what you guys meant.

Focus_Sh1ft · 12-13-2010, 01:50 PM

I really think it's the fuel pump as well, but I can't offer any explanation as to why. Wouldn't all the blitz people experience similar problems?

The injectors maxing out just doesn't make sense though. 1ZZ should easily cover 8 psi of boost...

What's the life expectancy on a fuel pump? Maybe Peter's is on its last legs?

cali yaris · 12-13-2010, 02:50 PM

It's not that difficult to upgrade to a Walbro 255. Can you do that without a return line?

The stock fuel pump is the size of a "D" cell battery, LOL. I posted a pic somewhere of it!

cdydjded · 12-13-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Focus_Sh1ft

I really think it's the fuel pump as well, but I can't offer any explanation as to why. Wouldn't all the blitz people experience similar problems?

The injectors maxing out just doesn't make sense though. 1ZZ should easily cover 8 psi of boost...

What's the life expectancy on a fuel pump? Maybe Peter's is on its last legs?

I feel the Blitz guys are not have fuel issues cause they are only making 30-40 more HP than stock. Apparently the pump is OK till that point. Now the turbo guys are making 65-85 more HP & the pump is reaching it limits of fuel pressure & volume. The injector maxing out make perfect sense, the pump is running out of steam! It cant supply enough fuel for the demand the engine & injectors are requiring.

cdydjded · 12-13-2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali yaris

It's not that difficult to upgrade to a Walbro 255. Can you do that without a return line?

The stock fuel pump is the size of a "D" cell battery, LOL. I posted a pic somewhere of it!

Yes it can be done but Im sure the base line psi will be higher than factory which would cause a rich condition. To address that you would have to convert to a return system. I feel the 155lph would be better choice. The 255lph can handle +/-600hp.

rob323 · 12-13-2010, 04:20 PM

It's a catch 22, if you put even a small walbro in, you would overrun the capacity for the fpr and the return system and end up with a much higher base pressure, good for when on boost but crap for idling and cruising.

Someone with more smarts than me probably could come up with some sort of voltage controller which references to boost pressure and lowers the voltage to the pump at idle and cruise and just ramps it up when positive manifold pressure is detected (or maybe reference it to an air flow reading, anything over and above max NA airflow makes it send more voltage to the fuel pump. That sort of setup might get around to having to fabricate a proper return setup, and if you are going to go to that extent, then you may as well block off the factory return and put in a rising rate regulator and set it up properly.

Has anyone flowed their injectors at varying pressures to see at what pressure they start to atomise the fuel properly? This minimum pressure should be kept in mind when working out your fuel pressure requirements and the amount of boost that you are going to run.

rob323 · 12-13-2010, 04:22 PM

Simple fix, block off the return, run max fuel pressure all the time that the pump can supply, run rich as hell and watch those injectors never get over 50% duty cycle

And keep a back up supply of fuel pumps in the glove box for when they give up the ghost.

cdydjded · 12-14-2010, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali yaris

I had 100% stock fuel system at 8 psi. With larger injectors.

I still don't understand why only one person would experience the problem, .

IMO the reasons he is encountering these issues is cause he is the only one with a Zage kit running 8lbs of boost, with 1zz injectors, AEM Meth & tunning it with an AEM FIC. Everyone else that is turbo has different setups.......

PETERPOOP · 12-14-2010, 10:26 PM

greddy emanage ultimate. Still trying to talk to the tuner about all of this...

cdydjded · 12-14-2010, 11:47 PM

Correction: a Zage kit running 8lbs of boost, with 1zz injectors, AEM Meth & tunning it with an eManage Ultimate

12-12-2010, 12:06 AM	#92
cali yaris ULTIMATE View User's Garage Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo Join Date: May 2007 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 14,859	^ I think so too. __________________ Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific.

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12-11-2010, 10:58 PM	#91
PETERPOOP View User's Garage Drives: 08 white liftback Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oahu Posts: 3,674	Well if you plan on doing a built motor in the future, you would be perfect for the test. ;) I would think you could hit 200whp with 10lbs of boost. If not, it would be close, I think.

12-12-2010, 04:06 PM	#93
rob323 Don't drive it, RALLY it! Drives: 1999 echo PRC rally car Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Joyner, Brisbane Posts: 321	The injectors could quite well be getting max'd out cause the fuel pressure system has no reference to manifold pressure in a stock (return-less) fuel system. If you can raise the fuel pressure as boost increases, it would give you substantial headroom in that side of things. The other problem is that the injectors may not be spraying optimally when having to fight against the boost pressure in the manifold.

12-12-2010, 05:08 PM	#94
Bluevitz-rs 1NZ-6spd View User's Garage Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,967	I just thought of another problem you guys might be having with tunning... the stock fuel pump is a 2 speed unit. I forget exactly how it operates, but it goes something like, "low speed at idle and cruse" and "high speed under acceleration". If someone has a repair manual, they should be able to confirm this. Because this could be causing the fuel pressure to jump around

12-12-2010, 05:45 PM	#95
cdydjded Drives: Yaris LB Turbo Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Miami FL Posts: 782	Rob & Blue stole my thunder, I think also the the fuel pump might be an issue.

12-12-2010, 08:24 PM	#96
cali yaris ULTIMATE View User's Garage Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo Join Date: May 2007 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 14,859	Has anyone else had trouble with fuel pressure or the pump at low boost? Seems like everyone would, or no one would.

12-12-2010, 10:06 PM	#97
rob323 Don't drive it, RALLY it! Drives: 1999 echo PRC rally car Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Joyner, Brisbane Posts: 321	But has anyone with a stock system monitored the fuel pressure while under boost? no point having 40 psi of fuel pressure at idle if the injectors are just dribbling fuel out when under boost even when at 100% duty cycle. I don't know over there, but the one Aussie Yaris pump I have pulled out was about the same size as a D cell battery. The pump in the Echo is almost twice the size in comparison.

12-13-2010, 01:50 PM	#100
Focus_Sh1ft Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 875	I really think it's the fuel pump as well, but I can't offer any explanation as to why. Wouldn't all the blitz people experience similar problems? The injectors maxing out just doesn't make sense though. 1ZZ should easily cover 8 psi of boost... What's the life expectancy on a fuel pump? Maybe Peter's is on its last legs?

12-13-2010, 02:50 PM	#101
cali yaris ULTIMATE View User's Garage Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo Join Date: May 2007 Location: Canoga Park, CA Posts: 14,859	It's not that difficult to upgrade to a Walbro 255. Can you do that without a return line? The stock fuel pump is the size of a "D" cell battery, LOL. I posted a pic somewhere of it!

12-13-2010, 04:20 PM	#104
rob323 Don't drive it, RALLY it! Drives: 1999 echo PRC rally car Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Joyner, Brisbane Posts: 321	It's a catch 22, if you put even a small walbro in, you would overrun the capacity for the fpr and the return system and end up with a much higher base pressure, good for when on boost but crap for idling and cruising. Someone with more smarts than me probably could come up with some sort of voltage controller which references to boost pressure and lowers the voltage to the pump at idle and cruise and just ramps it up when positive manifold pressure is detected (or maybe reference it to an air flow reading, anything over and above max NA airflow makes it send more voltage to the fuel pump. That sort of setup might get around to having to fabricate a proper return setup, and if you are going to go to that extent, then you may as well block off the factory return and put in a rising rate regulator and set it up properly. Has anyone flowed their injectors at varying pressures to see at what pressure they start to atomise the fuel properly? This minimum pressure should be kept in mind when working out your fuel pressure requirements and the amount of boost that you are going to run.

12-13-2010, 04:22 PM	#105
rob323 Don't drive it, RALLY it! Drives: 1999 echo PRC rally car Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Joyner, Brisbane Posts: 321	Simple fix, block off the return, run max fuel pressure all the time that the pump can supply, run rich as hell and watch those injectors never get over 50% duty cycle And keep a back up supply of fuel pumps in the glove box for when they give up the ghost.

12-14-2010, 10:26 PM	#107
PETERPOOP View User's Garage Drives: 08 white liftback Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oahu Posts: 3,674	greddy emanage ultimate. Still trying to talk to the tuner about all of this...

12-14-2010, 11:47 PM	#108
cdydjded Drives: Yaris LB Turbo Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Miami FL Posts: 782	Correction: a Zage kit running 8lbs of boost, with 1zz injectors, AEM Meth & tunning it with an eManage Ultimate