tooter's manifold adventure...

[tooter]

This whole project has been so much fun.
One idea always leads to another so I'm going to follow them off the beaten path just to find out where they lead. It's my favorite kind of experimental approach:

"Adapting things to an unintended purpose."

[malibuguy]

I thought about recreating the plenum when I go to do mine...just because the factory is so damn ugly. But I wonder if a larger volume could benift even more?

[CrankyOldMan]

Originally Posted by tooter

This whole project has been so much fun.
One idea always leads to another so I'm going to follow them off the beaten path just to find out where they lead. It's my favorite kind of experimental approach:

"Adapting things to an unintended purpose."

Aah yes, the old "under-utilized engineer" syndrome: if you don't give them problems to solve, they start making up their own.

I had also played with some ideas for a new plenum involving 6" aluminum tubing and some CNC'd flanges, but I seem to have lost a large amount of the files when I uninstalled AutoCAD. If you're going to be doing the CAD work yourself and you want some flow analysis, I have access to ANSYS at school and SolidWorks Flowxpres at work.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan

Aah yes, the old "under-utilized engineer" syndrome: if you don't give them problems to solve, they start making up their own.

I had also played with some ideas for a new plenum involving 6" aluminum tubing and some CNC'd flanges, but I seem to have lost a large amount of the files when I uninstalled AutoCAD. If you're going to be doing the CAD work yourself and you want some flow analysis, I have access to ANSYS at school and SolidWorks Flowxpres at work.

Thanks for the offer Cranky...
But I leave that to the CNC guys. We go over the design details and they render them into a 3D visual, and then into xyz coordinates that tell the milling heads exactly where to go. The really nice thing is that the design office and the machine are all in one location.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by malibuguy

I thought about recreating the plenum when I go to do mine...just because the factory is so damn ugly. But I wonder if a larger volume could benift even more?

I unolcked some secrets in that "ugly" plenum...



There's a "reverse velocity stack" which extends into the center of that really small plenum.

And I noticed something else... even though the picture doesn't show it, nothing is at right angles or parellel to the plane of the runner entrances. Everyhing is cocked at odd angles including that velocity stack.

Now this could likely be for noise reduction as that seems to be a major consideration in passenger vehicles, or it could be to break up resonant harmonic frequences so as to smooth out the peaks and valleys in the power band over a wide rpm range. There is almost no information on the web about these intake manifold issues, so I'm going to go off in a direction which I think will work.

Because that's what life's all about...

...finding out.

[JustDidIt]

Originally Posted by tooter

Because that's what life's all about...

...finding out.

[CrankyOldMan]

I managed to re-install inventor and get my project back. Here's a crude 3D pdf of a concept assembly. It's rather machine-intensive for the lower flange, so it would really need to be CNC'd, but the upper part could probably be done manually.

If you look at the bottom (four-barrel) end, you can see that the inserts are all a little different depth. This is to allow the entire existing plenum to be cut off and still retain the same relative tube length when mating to the 1NZ cylinder pitch.

[tooter]

I'm going with a different concept that retains the existing rounded square base...



...to save the most costly and complex task of machining the 4 runner entrances. I already have some 6 inch tubing left over from the velocity stack spacer, and might use that. Although the other end will be something different if I can get a hold of the right materials.

[CrankyOldMan]

I had contemplated that, but then I would have to figure out how to weld up a rounded-square body. My idea was to match the radius of the base with some tubing, cut it into quarters, and weld panels between them. Given my lack of welding skill but substantial access to machining equipment, the tube + flanges seemed to make the most sense. It would still require someone to weld the seams, but tube-in-a-hole is easier than plates-hanging-in-space.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan

I had contemplated that, but then I would have to figure out how to weld up a rounded-square body. My idea was to match the radius of the base with some tubing, cut it into quarters, and weld panels between them. Given my lack of welding skill but substantial access to machining equipment, the tube + flanges seemed to make the most sense. It would still require someone to weld the seams, but tube-in-a-hole is easier than plates-hanging-in-space.

The solution to that is simple.
A 6 inch diameter circular aluminium plate with a rounded square hole cut in the middle of it. I know a really competent welder who can weld anything. The secret to any project is finding good honest people who you can trust.

[mr_miles]

I love this thread. I wish I was closer so that i could help :/

[tooter]

That would be lots of fun...
Well, at least I can keep you posted every step of the way. I just ordered a part for the manifold plenum, and will post pics when it arrives. It's something which has absolutely no relation to engines, and I'm adapting it to an unintended purpose.

As far as I can tell from searching the web for everything about intake manifold design I could find... no one has built the design I'm going to try. There may be a reason. Because it doesn't work! But I'm going to find that out for myself. I'm building one manifold designated for testing only. And the good part is that if the experimental designs don't show any gains on the dyno, I can always simply cut them off of the runners and try something else.

[Flipper_1938]

If you are going to try a really large diameter plenum...large diameter equals low velocity.

[tooter]

Originally Posted by Flipper_1938

If you are going to try a really large diameter plenum...large diameter equals low velocity.

No, I won't be doing that. First off, there's no room for a larger plenum with this particular manifold design while keeping the air filter under the hood. And second I don't want to go larger. Instead, I'm going to a smaller plenum. The existing one is already almost non existent with that big thick intake tube occupying so much volume...


...and yet that design works great! I believe it is because of the unique configuration with all the runner entrances pointing directly at the bore of the throttle body...



That internal intake tube terminates only a couple of inches in front ot the runner's entrances. So there is very little plenum volume left over.

When I get the part, I'll be able to measure exactly how much smaller if at all by filling both plenums with water. What will be radically different is the profile of the new plenum. I literally dreamed up this crazy idea...

[JustDidIt]

Originally Posted by tooter

I know a really competent welder who can weld anything. The secret to any project is finding good honest people who you can trust.

Hey Tooter, I need to come up 2 LA and meet this welder of yours. I have a project I would like to run by him. Whereabouts is he located?

[tooter]

Originally Posted by JustDidIt

Hey Tooter, I need to come up 2 LA and meet this welder of yours. I have a project I would like to run by him. Whereabouts is he located?

Sure.

Ajax's
7933 Gloria Avenue
Van Nuys, CA 91406
818-781-5667

Bill is the owner.
Tell him tooter sent you.

His place is easy to get to as it's just West of the 405 off the Roscoe Boulevard exit.

West on Roscoe
South on Woodley
East on Strathern
South on Gloria

[JustDidIt]

Originally Posted by tooter

Sure.

Ajax's
7933 Gloria Avenue
Van Nuys, CA 91406
818-781-5667

Bill is the owner.
Tell him tooter sent you.

His place is easy to get to as it's just West of the 405 off the Roscoe Boulevard exit.

West on Roscoe
South on Woodley
East on Strathern
South on Gloria

Awesome! Thank you!

[Bluevitz-rs]

Cool Tooter! Are you reworking the manifold with your own plenum and TB mount?