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06-30-2014, 02:24 AM | #127 |
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Drives: 2012 Yaris L 2dr 5sp Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,961
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It might take a few cold start cycles for the ECU to relearn the new operating properties. On the dyno, the spacer lowered the torque peak from 4,100 rpm to 3,700 rpm, which is a difference of a little under 10%.
Without a tachometer that might be more difficult to detect, especially with the transmission torque converter fluid coupling compensating for the engine load. Let me know your driving impressions and gas mileage after driving it around for a while. :) Greg |
07-01-2014, 09:23 AM | #128 |
Drives: 2010 5-door hatchback Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: MN
Posts: 50
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Greg, I believe you mentioned the Weapon-R header you have also helped lower the torque curve a few hundred RPMs as well. I also recall you have a Magnaflow custom exhaust as well?
I am thinking of a header being the next mod. Looking at either the DC Sports or Weapon-R. Whichever header will help lower the torque curve further would be preferred. I have the JDM TRD muffler, but I don't think that contributes much for low end torque. A mechanic friend told me the issue with small engines and exhaust pipe diameter isn't an issue of backpressure, but that of exhaust gas velocity. Smaller pipes allow for higher gas velocity, which then improves the scavenging ability of the passing pressure wave, and helps low end torque. Larger pipes reduce the gas velocity, but allow for greater flow volume, which can improve high-end HP. Makes sense to me. I just wonder if the mods are somewhat of a wasted effort with the auto tranny. Like you said about the fluid coupling, I would bet the tranny is responsible for a reduction in effectiveness. Still, the mods are fun to do and I enjoy getting under the car or hood and learning more about the workings of the Yaris. I put about 35 miles on the spacer since install. I did notice the tranny doesn't downshift as readily while trying to accelerate on the on-ramp to highway speeds. Surprisingly, I am able to get a up to speed even in 3rd gear and not have to either force the tranny into 2nd or mash the gas pedal. Hope it gets better with more miles. |
07-01-2014, 04:02 PM | #129 | |||||
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Drives: 2012 Yaris L 2dr 5sp Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,961
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Quote:
The stated peak torque of a factory stock Yaris engine is 4,200 rpms. Both dyno runs on that chart were done with the Weapon R exhaust header and the Micro Image Magnaflow center exhaust. The peak torque on the run without the spacer is 4,100 rpm. So that means the header lowered the torque 100 rpms while the spacer lowered the peak by 400rpms. The two together produced the 3,700 rpm torque peak, 500 rpms lower than the stock peak. I believe the 100 rpms are because there is such a short space in which to fit a header and yet retain the original position of the rest of the exhaust. So the tubes simply aren't long enough to make much difference. On my Tacoma, I put a long tube header that uses folded runners to fit into the same space as the factory stock short tube header... ...and it lowered the torque peak by 650 rpms because there was enough room to pack long runners into a short space. Quote:
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One major sensing element of engine load is intake manifold vacuum, which is a function of how hard the gas pedal is being pressed. When an engine produces more torque at lower rpms, the gas pedal is pressed slightly less, and the intake manifold vacuum is slightly higher. When a certain threshold of intake manifold vacuum is reached sooner, the transmission is signaled to shift to a higher gear sooner. That's what you're feeling. Greg |
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07-02-2014, 08:12 AM | #130 |
Drives: 2010 5-door hatchback Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: MN
Posts: 50
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There is a slight power increase in the mid-3000RPM range. I kept an eye on the Scangauge whenever I was accelerating on the on-ramp and the car maintained a 3rd gear constant acceleration that was decent. I drive a regular route to work and back and frequently have to force the tranny into 2nd just to get an appreciable increase in speed.
For this first this first tank, it seems to be right in the norm for mileage. I usually get about 95 miles before the first bar in the gauge disappears. With the spacer on, I got 98. I usually go till the pump auto-stops for a consistent fill-up. I'm not expecting massive gains here, especially for the first tank, but we will see. I wonder if a dyno sheet for an auto tranny would look much different from yours, Greg? I think you said your dyno run was done by putting the car in 3rd and then mashing the gas pedal? |
07-02-2014, 01:35 PM | #131 |
Drives: '14 GT86, '08 Vitz Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Valley, CA
Posts: 9,873
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http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/yar.../07Vios/183168
Before I traded Vios in. I installed the Tooter spacer on entry 46. As you can see, every tank after that saw an increase of 2-3 mpg. |
07-02-2014, 10:15 PM | #132 | |
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Drives: 2012 Yaris L 2dr 5sp Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
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Quote:
It might just be a coincidence, but making the runners 10% longer yielded a 10% lower torque peak. Although it's highly likely that relationship would break down pretty rapidly if continued. Our mileage gets shot to hell because my wife drives the car, but when I drive it's easy to short shift at 2,000rpms without straining or lugging the engine. Greg |
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07-02-2014, 10:24 PM | #133 | |
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Drives: 2012 Yaris L 2dr 5sp Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
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Quote:
I did get to drive with the spacer when we took a trip and my best mileage was 42.1 mpg at 65-75 mph on the interstate. But just driving around town with no freeway, my wife has only been averaging 37.5 mpg. Greg |
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07-07-2014, 10:51 PM | #134 |
Drives: 2010 5-door hatchback Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: MN
Posts: 50
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Hey Greg,
I know you run a short ram intake with cone filter. Did you have to do any mods to get that to work with the Tooter manifold or the spacer? I'm considering an intake like the AFE or maybe the K&N Typhoon. I doubt it would make serious gains, but I'm more curious about it improving MPG and perhaps a little performance increase. On the other hand, I've also read that the stock intakes are engineered to deliver more flow than the engine could ever use and they also maintain a standing volume of still air within the box, ready to be sucked into the engine. Perhaps I should just look into a higher flow filter that fits the stock air box and go with that? |
07-09-2014, 12:13 AM | #135 | ||
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Drives: 2012 Yaris L 2dr 5sp Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,961
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Quote:
When the engine is running at low rpms, any intake is underutilized, even the stock air box. I put a mini velocity stack on mine when I ran it. I'm considering an intake like the AFE or maybe the K&N Typhoon. I doubt it would make serious gains, but I'm more curious about it improving MPG and perhaps a little performance increase.[/quote] They do make a nice sound... but that's about it. Quote:
Greg |
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07-18-2014, 08:40 PM | #136 |
Drives: 07 hatchback Join Date: May 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 118
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Hey all,
So my install of this spacer was on an auto trans. I found that it actually hurt my mileage even after it re learned its stuff. I had about a 2 mpg drop from last summer so i took it off and the mpg came back up to match last year |
07-19-2014, 12:07 AM | #137 |
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Drives: 2012 Yaris L 2dr 5sp Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
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Do you realize that the spacer can't alter your air/fuel ratio?
It just makes the intake runners longer. So it's obvious that there is something else going on besides the spacer. But if you're not satisfied and feel that it is to blame for your gas mileage, simply return it undamaged with its gasket and all of the hardware and I'll refund your money. Greg Mamishian 21444 Entrada Road Topanga, CA 90290 |
07-19-2014, 02:03 AM | #138 |
Drives: '14 GT86, '08 Vitz Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Valley, CA
Posts: 9,873
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Were there any gaps between the spacer and the manifold and/or head?
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07-19-2014, 01:04 PM | #139 |
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Drives: 2012 Yaris L 2dr 5sp Join Date: Apr 2012
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That would very likely cause the ECU to throw a code.
I know this by personal experience because at the time I installed the prototype, the new gaskets hadn't come in yet. I was really anxious to run it and used an old gasket that was laying around. It triggered a fuel trim code because it leaked. There's something else going on that we don't know about. But I won't argue with the guy. If he's not happy with his gas mileage and feels the spacer is the cause, he gets his money back. Greg |
07-21-2014, 02:46 PM | #140 | |
Drives: 2008 yari sedan/2007 sc'd tC Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: York, PA
Posts: 110
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07-21-2014, 03:06 PM | #141 |
Drives: 2010 5-door hatchback Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: MN
Posts: 50
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I've now put a few tanks through my Yaris with the Tooter spacer. I did not notice any significant change in MPG. One tank was worse by about 1.8MPG and two tanks were better, one by 0.4MPG and the second by 1.1MPG. I think it has more to do with the variations in traffic and how heavy my foot is than the spacer. Sometimes I am running late and need to get moving faster and other days I am early and take my time accelerating and do more coasting. I imagine the ECU has learned what it needs with the spacer in place. I cannot feel any difference in daily driving, but it just seems like the tranny is more hesitant to downshift than before. I would understand that to mean the engine is probably pulling with a little more torque and thus, feels it does not need to downshift unless I force it or mash the pedal. I guess I still need to run more tanks to see if there is a greater change in MPG beyond the standard deviation. So far, everything runs as it should.
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07-24-2014, 02:09 AM | #142 | |
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Drives: 2012 Yaris L 2dr 5sp Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
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Quote:
I've been posting my name and address for years and have never had any problems being a public business . No one can scam me anyways. Greg |
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07-30-2014, 09:22 PM | #143 |
Drives: Decepticon - Ravage Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,462
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I was able to install the spacer and keep the heat shield on the AFE intake.
Did an initial test 6 mile test run city/hwy after ECU reset just to make sure car runs fine. 1. Idle warmed up RPM is lowered ~25rpm from 620 to 595. 2. Blipping the throttle is sensitive, like having the throttle controller on. 3. Letting the engine lug the car forward is much stronger. Sure the car is shaking but works stronger on my slight inclined driveway. 4. Although idle RPM is lowered, fuel consumption/hour hasn't changed, still 0.125/HR Manual Transmission Related Mods: AFE Intake, DC Sports axle back
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Check out my Build thread: http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52274 Last edited by ezhacker1; 07-31-2014 at 07:30 PM. |
07-31-2014, 11:46 AM | #144 | |
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Drives: 2012 Yaris L 2dr 5sp Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,961
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Quote:
This is one of the strange attributes of the intake manifold spacer that doesn't show up on the dyno runs because it's "below the radar". Off idle partial throttle performance is superb. If you have a manual transmission there's less clutch slipping needed just to get the car moving. Greg |
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