Guns

[darthbauer]

I dont mind being called a gun nut. I call myself one all the time.

[darthbauer]

I've often told people that think im going to go postal and take people out not to worry cause it would be a real waste of ammo.

[Nigal]

Originally Posted by *MAD DOG*

No offense intended, what do people that love guns be preffered to be called? "Gun owners"?

It's OK I wasn't pissed. Anything that doesn't suggest mental instability is fine.

[darthbauer]

Here is my 11-87 by Scattergun Technologies with some paint and a fresh coat of dip in MultiCam.

[*MAD DOG*]

So do you have to cock it first to put that bullet in the chamber and then walk around with cocked gun?

[*MAD DOG*]

So most people with a glock would have a bullet in the chamber after cocking the gun and putting on the trigger safety?

[Nigal]

I always liked...

"Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

[MadMax]

I would highly suggest you go back and read the Gun Facts document I referenced earlier. Maybe that way you'll actually have some facts to study, instead of the anti-gun hyperbol you seem to readily accept!

FACT: In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.

(Sources: Bureau of Justice Statistics, online database, reviewing Texas and U.S. violent crime from 1995-2001 and John Lott, David Mustard: This study involved county level crime statistics from all 3,054 counties in the U.S., from 1977 through 1992. During this time ten states adopted right-to-carry laws. It is estimated that if all states had adopted right-to-carry laws, in 1992 the US would have avoided 1,400 murders, 4,200 rapes, 12,000 robberies, 60,000 aggravated assaults – and saved over $5,000,000,000 in victim expenses.)

Emphasis mine.

So, I've presented my facts; where are yours?

Cheers! M2

[stuffy]

Originally Posted by MadMax

I would highly suggest you go back and read the Gun Facts document I referenced earlier. Maybe that way you'll actually have some facts to study, instead of the anti-gun hyperbol you seem to readily accept!



Emphasis mine.

So, I've presented my facts; where are yours?

Cheers! M2

if you're addressing me i think you've misunderstood me to some extent.

firstly, i don't think i ever stated an "anti-gun" stance in this thread, where you got this from....not sure.

secondly, i have backed up what i said, perhaps i was overemphasizing by making a statement like "one of the highest crime rates in the u.s.", which is not untrue. overstated perhaps, but true.

thirdly, i was talking about median family incomes in which texas falls below the national average. this was to illustrate a connection between poverty and crime (this was in no way meant to suggest that everyone in texas is poor if that's how you took it). i could look up a bunch of studies to back this up but i really can't be bothered, the reality is that poorer regions tend to have a higher crime rate. i'll take this as a given, if you don't....oh well.
(gdp was your thing, not mine)

if a connection can be conclusively made concerning a drop in crime to gun carry laws, i would be surprised.
it's definitely going to take more than one study to convince me.
there seems to be a bunch of studies on both sides concerning liberal gun laws and there are so many other influencing factors on crime rates.

[MadMax]

You obviously aren't reading my posts. I have included numerous sources that show there is a link between allowing people to legally conceal carry and a drop in crime. The document I posted a link to referenced several studies so be prepared for a bit of a shock...there is a positive correlation between being able to arm yourself and crime! You can ignore the truth all you want (you have yet to back up any of your claims with research data); but I am letting the facts speak for themselves. It may be a waste of time in trying to get you to change your opinion, but I want to make sure the rest of the people reading this thread have the right data in which to make an informed opinion.

About all you have done is insulted me, calling me "sensitive" and a having a "fragile ego" that needed massaging; but all I countered with was easily obtainable information to support my points. It did not require a thesis-level effort to compile (I am finishing my second graduate degree, so I am somewhat familiar with what it takes to complete a thesis); but simply a basic understanding of how to properly use the Internet and a little desire for the truth. Oh, and about 5-10 minutes of my time. If you can't be bothered to read any of the references I have included, then you will never change your mind and that my friend is the pure definition of ignorance; but hopefully others will take the time to do so and can be enlightened to the realities of the situation, and not the opinionated and unsubstantiated misinformation spewed in your posts!

Sorry, but you’ve brought a plastic spoon to a gunfight! Either arm yourself with some real facts and references, or call it a day and go home. This may just be an Internet forum, but that doesn’t mean it can’t contained informative discussion. If you are going to state an opinion, then caveat it as such, and quit acting as if it is a proven fact!

[SailDesign]

Stuffy,
Here is an article from the NCPA (NAtional Center for Policy Analysis) from 2001. A you may see from earlier posts, MadMax and I don't see eye to eye on everything, but this would seem to prove his point.

Link: http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pdcrm/pdcrm20.htm

************************************************** ****

Concealed Carry Laws Reduce Crime


Major crime fell dramatically in states which have legalized the carrying of concealed handguns, according to a comprehensive new study at the University of Chicago.

For the first time, researchers analyzed crime statistics for all 3,054 counties in the United Sates between 1977 and 1992, according to one of the authors of the unpublished study, Professor John Lott. After adjusting for a general fall in crime rates, the study found that:

In the 31 states that now have "concealed right to carry" laws, murders were down, on average, by 8.5 percent.

Rapes were down 5 percent and serious assaults by 7 percent.

In cities with populations of more than 250,000, murder rates dropped after the passage of such laws by an average of 13.5 percent.
According to the study, the fall in crime did not result from an increased use of guns, but from potential criminals avoiding confrontations. In fact, criminals apparently shifted to lower-risk offenses, since property crimes increased in those states. Other findings included:

The most dramatic falls in murder rates were in areas where the number of women carrying firearms was high.

The study found that for every woman who carries a concealed hand, the murder rate fell by three to four times more than it would have if one more man had carried a concealed gun.

If states with concealed handgun bans had allowed them in 1992, about 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes and more than 60,000 aggravated assaults would have been avoided.
In addition, the researchers found no evidence of an increase in accidental killings or suicides in states with concealed carry laws.

Sources: Ian Katz, "'Gun Law' Cuts Crime Rate, US Study Finds," Guardian, August 3, 1996, and Dennis Cauchon, "Study: Weapons Laws Deter Crime: Fewer Rapes, Murders Found Where Concealed Guns Legal," USA Today, August 2, 1996.

[darthbauer]

Or how about we drop the talk of rather or not CCW helps prevent crime and just focus on the guns.

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by darthbauer

Or how about we drop the talk of rather or not CCW helps prevent crime and just focus on the guns.

Sounds good to me!

[stuffy]

Originally Posted by darthbauer

Or how about we drop the talk of rather or not CCW helps prevent crime and just focus on the guns.

agreed. sorry for my part in the direction this thread took.

[stuffy]

oh yes, i did insult you madmax. directly i might add, but only after your passive-aggressive attempt at insulting me by way of my country.
it's not my fault if you originally took offense where there was none.

your position is well entrenched, mine is not. i'm pretty much on the fence here.
the original exception i took was simply a statement that said crime rates in texas were low because of liberal gun laws, well i simply stated that crime rates were not low in texas when compared to the rest of the country.

there are plenty of studies on both sides of gun argument, and i for one will take them all with a grain of salt because there are a load of societal factors which weigh in on crime and gun crime specifically. many studies are funded by lobbyists from both sides and you have to question their integrity (well i do anyway)
i never once said that i believe the prevalence of guns within a society equals more crime-if this were the case then switzerland would be a hell-hole.
this seems to be what you think my position is.
but i also don't fully believe that they are a deterent.

[floydisrock]

I wouldn't carry a 9 mm for self defense.
I'd much prefer my Taurus .41 magnum revolver,or my .45 xd.
The wife can shoot either just as easily as a 9mm.

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by floydisrock

I wouldn't carry a 9 mm for self defense.
I'd much prefer my Taurus .41 magnum revolver,or my .45 xd.
The wife can shoot either just as easily as a 9mm.

I keep my 9 with hydroshocks more for the home, and the 38 revolver with +p hydroshocks for the road

[SailDesign]

Here's my Winchester.