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06-23-2007, 08:01 PM | #145 |
Drives: 03 Toyota Corolla S modded, Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LAS VEGAS, NV
Posts: 221
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I used 87 on a 3.8 Chrysler rental van (1000miles ODO) with 6 passengers and an icebox and I have to absolutely floor it to go 75MPH uphill at I-15... when we went back (got mad with the slow climbing speed) and bought damn 91 eventhough it's a rental and I did'nt regret it since I can climb a hill at 85-100MPH (still floored) running with an IS with a radar detector.
All I can say is I am definitely satisfied of the 91octane gas even if I pay the high price!
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THE YARIS: TINY BUT PRICEY! BUT YOU JUST GOTTA LOVE IT.... |
06-23-2007, 08:45 PM | #146 | |
Mr Attitude
Drives: Blazing Blue 5 Spd Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hillsboro
Posts: 302
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Quote:
On a turbo car, higher octane allows more boost, thus higher hp. Knock sensors have nothing to do with engine "gunk" buildup. If it was possible for the Yaris to get 51 mpg in the U.S., it would. Why would Toyota not want a car that destroys every other car in its class? Try 51 kpg maybe. The Yaris is sold in America. I think the Toyota engineers are smarter than us. |
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06-24-2007, 01:09 AM | #147 | |
Clean and (dis)Functional
Drives: Yaris 2dr--Black Betty Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tropical Minnesota
Posts: 562
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Quote:
My 53 Buick I used to have, had no timing marks. The shop manual said to said to set timing by turning the distributer until it ran good, then test drive by accelerating or going up a hill. If there was a knock go back and retard the timing,then repeat until only a very faint knock was heard. This is fine and dandy until you got a batch of poor gas, then it would knock like crazy. You could increase milage by advancing timing (set according to the gas you used) and driving consertively. ECU's have changed this to the better, but 'good' gas does work. During slow acceleration or maintaining speed on flat land the ECU allows the optimum timing because knock isn't present (even with 87 octane).....most hypers drive in this condition 99.9% of the time while the common everyday driver is in this condition 95% (guesstimate at maximum). So theoreticaly, scientifically, or any other way you think about it....the very concientious driver sees no gain from higher octane, the common driver may see better milage on a small fraction of their driving, and the leadfoot would see the best gains. Granted this is a small percentage gain over a very small percentage of a persons driving....but it is a gain.
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06-24-2007, 01:11 AM | #148 |
Drives: 03 Toyota Corolla S modded, Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LAS VEGAS, NV
Posts: 221
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^^^ Go to Toyota Canada.... it clearly states that it gets 41MPG city and 51MPG highway they measure fuel economy in metric using L/100KM and they don't use KPG, also they have high octane gas to give you better fuel economy...
Don't be a cheapo and face the truth that higher octane gasoline performs better! (Why does the US form 87 octane anyway? are they the only ones and want to be unique?) I even tried octane 125 at the airport for my AE92 and it definitely cleansed the engine and gave better power and response I drove it like I stole the damn thing.... (one thing I noticed is that the cold engine start white smoke disapeared when I used a tank of 125octane) I'm gonna try half a tank of octane 100 for the tC and see if it does something nice.
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THE YARIS: TINY BUT PRICEY! BUT YOU JUST GOTTA LOVE IT.... |
06-24-2007, 01:22 AM | #149 |
YARIS NEWBIE
Drives: YARIS 07 LIFTBACK Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NORTHERN NEW JERSEY
Posts: 159
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87 is for lawnmowers .. you decide!
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06-24-2007, 01:33 AM | #150 |
06-24-2007, 11:31 AM | #151 | |
Drives: Yaris 3 Door, 04 WRX, 69 Lotus Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: norcal
Posts: 128
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Quote:
The ignorance in this thread makes my head hurt. Octane only measures the autoignition characteristics of gasoline. How easily it will explode without a spark. THE ONLY THING THAT WILL CAUSE MPG TO INCREASE ARE O2 READINGS. If the O2 sensor reads the car running rich, it'll lean it out within safe parameters. Lean = less fuel used = higher MPG. HIGHER OCTANE DOES NOT CHANGE THE AIR-FUEL MIXTURE. Higher octane gasoline can only prevent detonation. If your detonating with 87 octane, something is wrong with your engine/ECU. A car runs a base timing and advances or retards it only within set parameters. And those parameters are ones set by Toyota Engineers as to be safe with low octane gasoline. The computer will not exceed those if you put high octane gas in and magically the computer knows. Besides, there is no sensor that can tell what octane is used. To measure octane, you have to find out the percentage of volume is iso-octane and the percentage of volume is heptane. NO production car has the ability to do that... And anyway, advancing timing does not cause less fuel to be used. It cause more power to be made from the fuel. Everything else in this thread is anecdotal evidence. There are many, many, many variables. Elevation, wind, drag, tires, air pressure, surface type, load, weight, etc. The most important thing is repeatability. If you REALLY want to prove higher mileage, rent a couple weeks of dyno time in a lab. Control all the environmental variables to be constant for the whole week (temp, humidity, air flow, tire pressures). Empty the car 100% of all gasoline. put a predetermined mass of fuel in the car of a certain octane. Run about 40 tests and take the mean. IIRC 40 is the number where statistically each incremental test after that does not statistically significantly change the mean. Now change the octane and repeat all 40 tests. Then and only then you can make assumptions if octane can change MPG. |
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06-24-2007, 01:40 PM | #152 | ||
...a keyboard and a strong opinion make me an expert on this topic ;)
Quote:
Quote:
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06-24-2007, 03:14 PM | #153 |
Clean and (dis)Functional
Drives: Yaris 2dr--Black Betty Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tropical Minnesota
Posts: 562
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You must have a different owners manual, mine states:
SELECT OCTANE RATING 87 (RESEARCH OCTANE NUMBER 91) OR HIGHER. This is page 178 in my owners manual. Obviously they know what a few of us are trying to pass on here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The tests have been done before higher octane was ever put on the market (probably the 30's). The ECU has taken the "must have" higher octane in your car away....but it hasn't removed the fact that performance and milage will improve in most engines with it. Note that I am not saying it is cheaper to put the higher octane in....but where I live it's very feasable (Iowa and South Dakota 89 octane is the same price or cheaper than 87, and in Minnesota I get 89 for 2 cents more than 87) and I use 89 octane.
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06-24-2007, 03:32 PM | #154 |
Drives: 07 Bayou Blue Liftback Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,121
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Fuel
Ok, I got it now.
Last edited by blacksan; 06-24-2007 at 03:37 PM. Reason: me screwed it up! |
06-24-2007, 05:28 PM | #155 |
Mr Attitude
Drives: Blazing Blue 5 Spd Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hillsboro
Posts: 302
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06-24-2007, 11:28 PM | #156 | |
Clean and (dis)Functional
Drives: Yaris 2dr--Black Betty Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tropical Minnesota
Posts: 562
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Quote:
No, I'm actually positive first hand, sex was invented before 1970.
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06-25-2007, 12:58 AM | #157 | |
Mr Attitude
Drives: Blazing Blue 5 Spd Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hillsboro
Posts: 302
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Quote:
Most every gas was LEADED (no UN) before 1970. Leaded gas has a realative octane rating of todays "race' gas, like 110 or something... |
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06-25-2007, 01:30 AM | #158 | |
Resident Redneck
Drives: 07 Polar White Yaris Sedan 5M Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cumming, GA
Posts: 265
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Quote:
Is this guy still here, or has he been banned? 1) ...did you every consider that you could fill your tank up with 87 octane and drive your same route 10 times and get ten different MPG results? Yes, and they are usually within .3-.5 MPG each time. I actually do the math and keep a log. That's as close to scientific as we can get. 2) Your test lacks controls to be able to draw conclusions. As does your opinion. 3) ....did you attend college? Yes, Georgia Tech. I actually know the science- you think you know the science. And don't try any cute comebacks- I'll just look at my degree and my paycheck and giggle. Will there be anything else Pavel? I generally reserve arguing on the internet for times when I have nothing more adult to do, but watching you unravel and make a fool of yourself is worth it.
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My other rides: 2003 Honda Civic LX Coupe 5M- S/C K24 w/ LSD coming soon! 1999 Honda Civic EX Coupe 5M w/ B18 powaa 1985 Toyota Celica GTS Coupe 5M- track whip http://www.importlounge.com |
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06-25-2007, 01:31 AM | #159 |
Drives: Yaris 3 Door, 04 WRX, 69 Lotus Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: norcal
Posts: 128
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Unleaded gas didn't become common till the mid 80s. I remember when you had to hunt for the unleaded.
Leaded gas of the 70s was still 87 octane. Its just Lead is a knock detterant and so its a whole lot cheaper to make 87 octane with lead in it ;) . I'm not sure if the reason all the good race gas is leaded is cause its too expensive to make 110-120 octane without lead or if its actually impossible. You can get unleaded race gas up to about 100 or 102 octane... |
06-25-2007, 01:34 AM | #160 |
ULTIMATE
Drives: 07 Yaris Turbo Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canoga Park, CA
Posts: 14,859
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{ OFF TOPIC }
As far as I know, sex was invented in 1976. Uh... what was the topic about again? (scrolling back to page one)
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Micro Image forums, online store and shop are now closed. It was a great eight year run, but it was time to focus on other things. I'm still selling parts on eBay under micro*image seller ID and customers can still make requests for anything specific. |
06-25-2007, 01:43 AM | #161 |
Resident Redneck
Drives: 07 Polar White Yaris Sedan 5M Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cumming, GA
Posts: 265
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Don't taunt the married animals.
Sorry, I just don't like mean people- usually mean and idiot go hand in hand, so it's that much more maddening. I'm done, I promise. Back on topic.
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My other rides: 2003 Honda Civic LX Coupe 5M- S/C K24 w/ LSD coming soon! 1999 Honda Civic EX Coupe 5M w/ B18 powaa 1985 Toyota Celica GTS Coupe 5M- track whip http://www.importlounge.com |
06-25-2007, 03:58 AM | #162 |
Drives: '14 GT86, '08 Vitz Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Central Valley, CA
Posts: 9,873
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wow, my thread is going to start a war all over again.
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