T Montague's 2zr swap - '08 m/t sedan some extra info

[06YarisRS]

Do any of the 2zz 6 speed configurations come with an LSD? Have you considered a 2zz swap? There's your 170 - 180 hp, 8k revving engine. For fun I've been watching ebay and there's a few engine/trans combos available - imported and tested. I've looked at cams on Monkeywrench Racing as well, but stage 1.

I've also wondered if there would be room under the hood of the 2zr equipped Yaris for one of the TKC turbo kits.

All of the above purely for my entertainment, of course

[tmontague]

Turbo kit would likely fit no issue, but I'm more of a fan of high revving NA engines. Plus turbo brings more issues with heat soak and reliability problems.

Imho the 2zz is old technology, it wasnt bad and for the time it was a performance engine from Toyota (read: Yamaha) who really wasnt putting out much in that department. But those hp numbers are at the crank so it's comparing apples to oranges. A 2zr with high compression, cams and a high rev range should be able to easily match the 2zz but in a package that is already in my car and not a whole different swap.

If I was going to go to that trouble and cost I'd go with a Honda K24. 220whp NA all day. The point of where I'm going with this build over the next few years is one that you don't have to pay a shop to fabricate engine mounts and other completely custom stuff. I want to show people that they can buy a 12 year old 2nd gen yaris for cheap, gut it and do an engine swap and with bolt ons, achieve a lightweight fairly fast track car

[06YarisRS]

Originally Posted by tmontague

Turbo kit would likely fit no issue, but I'm more of a fan of high revving NA engines. Plus turbo brings more issues with heat soak and reliability problems.

Imho the 2zz is old technology, it wasnt bad and for the time it was a performance engine from Toyota (read: Yamaha) who really wasnt putting out much in that department. But those hp numbers are at the crank so it's comparing apples to oranges. A 2zr with high compression, cams and a high rev range should be able to easily match the 2zz but in a package that is already in my car and not a whole different swap.

If I was going to go to that trouble and cost I'd go with a Honda K24. 220whp NA all day. The point of where I'm going with this build over the next few years is one that you don't have to pay a shop to fabricate engine mounts and other completely custom stuff. I want to show people that they can buy a 12 year old 2nd gen yaris for cheap, gut it and do an engine swap and with bolt ons, achieve a lightweight fairly fast track car

Ah, all makes sense to me. I wasn't aware that the 2ZR could produce that power. The cams sound really promising. I did read that the 2ZZ has similar power output up to ~6500 RPM, then it comes on a lot stronger. Very informative stuff. Thanks.

[thebarber]

Originally Posted by 06YarisRS

Ah, all makes sense to me. I wasn't aware that the 2ZR could produce that power. The cams sound really promising. I did read that the 2ZZ has similar power output up to ~6500 RPM, then it comes on a lot stronger. Very informative stuff. Thanks.

My last vibe GT made 165whp with just an intake, fwiw.

But a 2zz/c60 won’t fit without cutting from rails, iirc.

I always thought the 2zr is the way to go in a Yaris..

[06YarisRS]

Originally Posted by thebarber

My last vibe GT made 165whp with just an intake, fwiw.

But a 2zz/c60 won’t fit without cutting from rails, iirc.

I always thought the 2zr is the way to go in a Yaris..

That was the 2.4 in the GT, right? Oops, disregard. Not the 2.4.

[tmontague]

Originally Posted by thebarber

My last vibe GT made 165whp with just an intake, fwiw.

But a 2zz/c60 won’t fit without cutting from rails, iirc.

I always thought the 2zr is the way to go in a Yaris..

That's not too shabby for just an intake. If someone was looking to compare bone stock engines and didn't mins the frame (and money wasnt as issue) then yes a 2zz would make the most sense. But when looking into aftermarket parts and running a standalone ecu I think the 2zr makes a lot more sense

[ArmstrongRacing]

Don’t cut it up man, you’re going to miss it as a fun daily

[Ronnie V]

<2000lbs + 150whp = 1.22.9 at TMP

[tmontague]

Originally Posted by ArmstrongRacing

Don’t cut it up man, you’re going to miss it as a fun daily

It can still be driven in the street cut up. I just wont he dailying it. There is way to much speed left in this car is I keep it comfortable as a daily, its already past the point if a comfy daily for me

Originally Posted by Ronnie V

<2000lbs + 150whp = 1.22.9 at TMP

Haha yup, as long as the driver is good enough

[ern-diz]

Do you guys think removing the rear seat and related hardware would throw the overall balance off much, or affect rigidity? Is there a point of diminishing returns?

[tmontague]

I dont think it would affect rigidity too much and likely not enough weight to really throw off the balance. If anything it may help the rear rotate more, but probably bit a big difference

[tmontague]

I received an online gift card from my work for the holidays so I put it to use on Amazon. Ordered a proper catch can to replace my dual air compressor air/water separators. I also picked up a Mishimoto magnetic transmission plug as per Tom's recommendations. It was priced fairly well and it seems like a good idea since I have a clutch type lsd.

I had some extra cash left over so I also ordered a TRD radiator cap. It is overpriced for what it is but the online gift card was very limiting on where I could use it and Amazon Canada isn't great for automotive part inventory. It's more of a "just in case" part. I will be properly dealing with the cooling issues with a dual core radiator in the summer, but the extra pressure that the TRD cap offers is just some extra protection from boiling in case something goes wrong and the coolant temps creep up again.

I also found a local guy about an hour away who was parting out his 2000 Echo that his buddy crashed. I pulled the radiator hoses, fan shroud and coolant fill neck. They are all in surprisingly good condition, I'm assuming the hoses had been replaced one time in their life. All I need now for the rad swap is an ebay dual core radiator and I'll probably also order some silicone hoses too just in case.

That's all for now, I'm anxiously awaiting updates on the long tube header ;)

[myfirstyota]

I like free parts!

[tmontague]

Welp, I installed my Mishimoto magnetic transmission plug this weekend (went in without any issues into the fill hole), and while in there I inspected my engine bay to make sure everything was Kosher. Sure enough, I find some greenish yellow a/c die around my low pressure discharge hose that goes into the compressor. My first thought "well its a darn good thing I added dye into the system as it makes diagnosis much easier". My second thought was "damn, my a/c system is now toast" - I haven't actually confirmed 100% but it appears my 11 year old low pressure hose has blown all the refrigerant out at the metal/rubber crimp. A common place of failures, especially on Nissan's and it appears this just happened to be due to age.

No hoses were rubbing and everything looked sound. Now I'm faced with the dilemma, do I spend around $100 CAD for an aftermarket hose, plus r134 (which I already have) and the hour or so repairing the leak for just one more summer of DDing the car, or do I pocket the cash and strip out all my a/c components now and put my car on a 30-40ish pound diet?

For me it is an easy answer but keep in mind I will be picking up my son occasionally from day care this summer and it is nice to have a/c for him as well as anytime I am dressed nicely and heading to a dinner or something and don't want to sweat my through my clothes. At this point I have convinced my wife to just leave the a/c system no functioning for the rare occasion I am picking up the kids in my car and it happens to be 35 degrees C out. When I stripped my interior, I kept the window switches connected and zip tied so I still have full control of the windows on those hot days.

It looks like my car will become a bit lighter over the next couple months, albeit a whole lot hotter this summer...

I also loosely test fitted the 1st gen radiator and it appears that the upper rad hose will clear the 2zr without issue. The problem point will actually be the DC sports CAI as the throttle body on the 2zr is at an upward angle compared to the mose straight 1nz TB. I am either going to have to find a comparable 30mm upper hose form another car or just put some sort of rubber material between the hose and the intake tube as they will likely be rubbing. The problem is I will not actually know how well it will or won't work until the new rad and shroud are in their actual places. This will likely have to be saved until the spring when I drain my winter coolant for the summer stuff ansd then I can mix and match the rads without making a mess

[06YarisRS]

Originally Posted by tmontague

...it appears my 11 year old low pressure hose has blown all the refrigerant out at the metal/rubber crimp.

Sure that's not because there is extra tension on there as the distance to the port with the 2ZR swap is a bit farther? Is it the crimp at the bottom of the low pressure side? Mine has some tension on it too, though much less than before I bent the aluminum tube part. I think the engine rocking back and forth a bit with that tension might fatigue the rubber where it's crimped.

Once you ditch your condensor, you can put a nice big oil cooler on there, LOL!
Have you done the spin-on oil filter conversion? Can't recall if you mentioned that.

[tmontague]

That's a possibility but I rechecked it tonight and the hoses have virtually no stress on them. I spent time when I did the swap bending the metal part of the hose in a vice and re doing it a bunch so the rubber part had no excess stress on it.

That said it is a complete possibility since it isnt a known issue for these hoses to regularly fail on the Yaris.

I did do the filter conversion - so that I could install a sandwich plate for my oil temp and pressure gauges. I dont think I'll be getting an oil cooler. Last season with crazy hot ambient temps and my coolant running at 234 degrees I only peaked oil temps at about 285F. Once I have the larger radiator in there the problem should only improve.

I am awaiting my most recent UOA from Blackstone which I will post up here once i look at it. There should be no reason the oil cannot handle those temps. I will however be running a 40weight oil next season so the viscocity stays up to spec in those temps

[06YarisRS]

Originally Posted by tmontague

That's a possibility but I rechecked it tonight and the hoses have virtually no stress on them. I spent time when I did the swap bending the metal part of the hose in a vice and re doing it a bunch so the rubber part had no excess stress on it.

That said it is a complete possibility since it isnt a known issue for these hoses to regularly fail on the Yaris.

I did do the filter conversion - so that I could install a sandwich plate for my oil temp and pressure gauges. I dont think I'll be getting an oil cooler. Last season with crazy hot ambient temps and my coolant running at 234 degrees I only peaked oil temps at about 285F. Once I have the larger radiator in there the problem should only improve.

I am awaiting my most recent UOA from Blackstone which I will post up here once i look at it. There should be no reason the oil cannot handle those temps. I will however be running a 40weight oil next season so the viscocity stays up to spec in those temps

Although 285 for even a second would freak me out, here is a quote from BITOG - and it's for GF-4, not the current GF-5:

"...GF-4 certification is on the bottle of the oil in your crankcase, it has passed the Sequence IIIG test which exposes the oil to 300F degrees for 100 hrs at 3600 rpm."

It sounds like you're definitely ok. I assume your running a synthetic?

I really like the idea of doing the spin-on upgrade.

[tmontague]

The spin on conversion really has no benefit unless you need/want to run a sandwich adapter for gauges.
I actually prefer the original set up as it makes it much easier to view the filter and any particulates that were caught.

I do run off the shelf full synthetic oils, the current sample I'm waiting on is Pennzoil ultra platinum 5w30 and my past UOA's were with Mobil 1 0w30. Unfortunately PUP and even PP isnt available locally in a 40 weight so I'll be switching to something else.

I have so far had no reason to need a boutique brand oil that costs much more. Even grade III synthetics are very stout oils and can easily compare to many IV's as they just have that many more additives to make up for it.

The next oil I have been eyeing in Canadian Tire's Formula 1 (made by Shell) as they have a 0w40 euro spec. The Euro specs have a much higher HTHS due to their use of the autobahn. This obviously pairs well with my track use.

Overall temp of a full syn oil isnt really the issue - it is the cause of the issue. If the oil thins too low then lowering temps can help that. Alternatively you can run a higher weight oil that will maintain factory spec viscocity at those higher temps. The 2zr is a factory spec'd 20 weight oil in NA but a 30 weight in hotter climates (allegedly) this is based on 212F summer oil temps of normal use. Based on my research a 40 weight should bring me closer to those viscocities at 260-280F I typically run at on track