Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site
 

 


 
Go Back   Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site > Technical Forums > DIY / Maintenance / Service
  The Tire Rack

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-2019, 09:56 PM   #1
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
Starter Problems - Heads Up

I've been having issues the past 2 weeks where my starter pinion gear would not engage the ring gear on my flywheel intermittently. The starter ends up spinning freely and engagement connects and then disconnects. It is better in the morning when everything is cold but much worse once warmed up.

Thinking off the top of my head that it was a failing solenoid, I picked up a used starter from a local recycler for $50 which was from a Yaris but was fairly new and it appeared to be an aftermarket replacement. Due to the aftermarket pinion gear being about 1mm thicker it caused a nasty rattle in my transmission when the engine was running so I had to swap my old pinion gear out from the old starter and attach it to the new starter motor and solenoid.

However once I did this the grind/rattle was gone, but the same intermittent engagement came back. This forced me to realize that the actual problem was a dirty/poorly lubed screw gear on the bendix of the starter. It was not seized, but it was sticky enough to fail engagement occasionally. It likely was better in the cold because starters tend to be more powerful in the cold and the power was enough to overcome the stickiness. It appeared that a bunch of clutch dust from the past 11 years had made its way into the starter bendix and mixed with the lube causing it to dry out. The bendix was actually not that stuck, but compared to the good one there was a big difference. It should be very slippery and you should see relatively clean grease/lube on the screw gear. If it isn't very slippery and moveable then it is likely causing an issue

The reason I am making a thread about this is because most people assume this is a solenoid failure. They take it to a shop and have a new starter put in which fixes the issue. This confirms to most people that the solenoid was in fact the issue. I likely would have been in the same boat had the new (used) starter pinion gear not been 1mm thicker than the oem one and caused a terrible noise.

If you google starter spinning but not engaging you never really find any articles or people talking about a bendix lack of lube issue. Everything points towards a failing solenoid, because when this happens usually it isn't intermittent.

However, if you search boating forums you realize that this issue is well known in outboard motors and there a a ton of videos just showing you to clean and re lube the bendix to fix the issue. This is likely because most people use their cars everyday and take it to a shop right away whereas boats have down time and are not as easy to find mechanics for. This leads to most people self diagnosing and fixing it themselves and therefore finding the real issue with the starter.

Bottom line, if you starter doesn't engage at all then yes, the solenoid could have failed. But if your starter spins but fails to contact the flywheel/pressure plate ring gear, then remove the starter and clean and re lube the bendix assembly. I used some lithium grease as a dry lube is recommended. A thin grease would likely also work as that is what seems to be on there from the factory.

I hope this helps save someone from buying a new starter
__________________
No one ever wants to give a Yaris the point by...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 10:56 AM   #2
myfirstyota
3 Yaris and counting..
 
Drives: 07 Yaris rs 3 door 2zr swaped
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 672
Sounds like the auto industry to me. Remember greasable ball joints? Where did those go? Nothing seems to be made in a serviceable fashion anymore. The solution is always to trash it and buy a new one. Our economy relies on it.

Great heads up Trevor.
__________________
No one suspects the Yaris.

Xd/2zr-fe Swap/Build Thread
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61427

Bolt-in 3.75" Suspension Lift Build Thread
http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61577
myfirstyota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 12:35 PM   #3
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
You are 100% correct, our economy would be un shambles if people actually fixed things. It is designed off of an unsustainable design of unstopping growth. If our death rate matched our birth rate/ immigration rate in Canada we would no longer need to build new homes and everything would tank.

It's sad but that is the world we live in
__________________
No one ever wants to give a Yaris the point by...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2019, 11:47 AM   #4
CrankyOldMan
2ZR swap. DO IT! Ask how!
 
CrankyOldMan's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 Meteoric Metallic HB
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 2,333
I thought that the solenoid replaced the Bendix by using a lever arm instead of a threaded interface to extend/retract the pinion. Mostly being a nitpick, but curious if I've misunderstood something. =)
CrankyOldMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2019, 12:23 PM   #5
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan View Post
I thought that the solenoid replaced the Bendix by using a lever arm instead of a threaded interface to extend/retract the pinion. Mostly being a nitpick, but curious if I've misunderstood something. =)
This is the weird thing - the yaris starter contains a typical solenoid which as you said uses a lever to engage the pinion and send power to the main starter motor. Thus making it a pre engagement type starter.

However, it uses a screw type gear that you see in an inertia type starter that doesn't use a solenoid. I'm not exactly sure why the worm type/bendix gear is used on top of the solenoid, I've been trying to wrap my head around it for a while.

All I know is that when it is not lubed and it is gunked up it stops the pinion from engaging as you would see in a typical inertia type starter.

It seems as if the yaris starter is a combo of the 2 types for what ever reason
__________________
No one ever wants to give a Yaris the point by...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2019, 08:13 AM   #6
CrankyOldMan
2ZR swap. DO IT! Ask how!
 
CrankyOldMan's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 Meteoric Metallic HB
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 2,333
Very strange. I just bought a 2ZR Vibe and the starter sounds a little funny, like it's not disengaging quickly enough. Might be worth pulling it and giving it a once over.
CrankyOldMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2019, 10:04 AM   #7
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Caledonia Ont.
Posts: 2,938
According to online forums a sticky solenoid/bendix typically causes the starter to not engage and it keeps spinning until you unplug the battery. Which is one of the reasons I couldn't find an answer to my issue online.

The starter now starts the engine faster with less cranking time than before. When I drive my 1zz vibe it always feels like it cranks a long time.

Its worth checking your starter on your vibe, chances are it could use a good cleaning and new grease.
__________________
No one ever wants to give a Yaris the point by...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
follow up on 2010 yaris problems + more problems heavenswaitin DIY / Maintenance / Service 18 09-03-2013 03:47 PM
Starter (or possibly electrical) Problems with 2008 Yaris Sedan amandadalton DIY / Maintenance / Service 6 11-21-2012 05:32 PM
starter kill & horn help spechuy DIY / Maintenance / Service 0 10-20-2008 01:30 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:12 AM.




YarisWorld
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.