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Old 07-21-2019, 10:57 PM   #325
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Vacuum from brake booster

My first attempt to solve my boost issue is to restore the original vacuum line that I tapped into, then tap into the brake booster line.

The hose I have is too weak to withstand vacuum and would collapse, so I lined it with some of the very stiff compressor hose I had. It fits perfectly and you can't compress it at all now.



returned to stock



New tapping of the brake booster hose. I just have to pick up a couple reducing couplers tomorrow. The hose ends will be trimmed to the right length and then connected. I have enough length on all the hoses to tuck this all away nicely and protect it from chafing. Of course the tubing will be fully seated on the tee when I put it back together.

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Old 07-22-2019, 02:14 PM   #326
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My, oh my, you've been busy! I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable, but like Trevor, I wouldn't say disappointed. A lot of positives here and you're working towards sorting things that need sorting. You, sir, are kicking much ass.
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:18 PM   #327
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Pretty surprised at that boost lag, seems like it would be a reasonable turbo to run for that motor to get a good range of boost.
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Old 07-22-2019, 07:04 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ern-diz View Post
My, oh my, you've been busy! I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable, but like Trevor, I wouldn't say disappointed. A lot of positives here and you're working towards sorting things that need sorting. You, sir, are kicking much ass.
Thanks ern-diz! I always appreciate your encouragement. I'll have an update shortly.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:38 PM   #329
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Progress

Well, I found a T-clamp that wasn't as tight as the others. It is the clamp that connects the first section of the charge piping to the compressor outlet. I cranked it down quite hard and then went for a drive. It pulls like crazy; much than when I brought it back from the tuner and I can hear my BOV when I release the throttle everytime after going into boost. I wasn't hearing it before. Torque shows the boost initially at 2.9 psi, then it goes into vacuum, but AFAIK, you don't hear a BOV in vacuum. This would also explain my dyno chart and the fact that my tuner was seeing 5.4 psi. I may need to procure a dedicated boost gauge. Also, boost seems to come on much sooner, probaby closer to 3500 - 3700 rpm. I plan to go for a drive later and I'll bring the laptop along and I can monitor PSIA load which will tell me the actual boost above atmospheric pressure. I just have to subtract 14.7 (I actually live probably 30 feet above sea level)

However, I still have idle issues to work out and I have some occasional light bucking and a misfire code P0303 (cylinder 3). The bucking occurs when I am out of boost at about 120 km/h on a hill at light to moderate throttle. I press down a bit harder on the throtte, the bucking stops. I think I need to do some road tuning and add some fuel in the cells that correspond to that particular load and RPM.

So, I'm very happy that I am seeing progress, but there are issues to deal with yet. I will take a few degrees of timing at idle to smooth that out, add some fuel for the bucking and report. I'm going to speak to my tuner and see if he'll give me 30 - 60 minutes of road tuning as opposed to getting on the dyno again.

If I had to guess what I'm producing at the wheels now, I would say closer to 170 - 180 - but that's butt dyno only, of course.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:58 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leegamer View Post
Pretty surprised at that boost lag, seems like it would be a reasonable turbo to run for that motor to get a good range of boost.
Yes, for sure. Check out my post just above.
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Old 07-23-2019, 02:26 AM   #331
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Can you describe the idle issues and the bucking a bit more? Glad you found the source of the leak! I would definitely invest in boost gauge to keep an eye on things.
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Old 07-23-2019, 09:43 AM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heeroyuy01195 View Post
Can you describe the idle issues and the bucking a bit more? Glad you found the source of the leak! I would definitely invest in boost gauge to keep an eye on things.
Sure can.

Idle:

Idle is perfect and smooth (around 750 rpm) when the car is below operating temps. It is always hard to start. It takes a few cranks and often requires messaging the throttle in the first few seconds to keep it running. Usually two or three light shots of gas will get it over this hump. My suspicion is that it's very rich at startup - but I could be wrong. Then it settles out into a nice idle. Once it's up to operating temps at idle in neutral or "D", it will intermittently feel like it is going to stall (rpms drop quickly but only for a fraction of a second), then immediately recovers. This intermittent stumbling only happens at idle and occurs every minute or two and sometimes every few minutes. By this time the idle is around 550 - 600 rpm (a bit slow). If I turn my A/C on at this point and put it in drive, it may stall, but not always. Under these conditions it has stalled in reverse as I believe that puts more load on the engine. Before I installed the 440cc injectors, I had no idle issues whatsoever, and it literally ran like stock at idle. I really need to get this issue resolved because it's dangerous at intersections etc in the city as the car might stall when approaching or stopped at a stop sign/light. Then, of course I lose power steering assist and possibly some braking.

Bucking (this did not happen at all before my tune):

If I am driving on the highway at around 110 - 120 km/h under light throttle and encounter a slight grade, the car will start to buck a bit (seems like misfire, which would corroborate the P0303 code). If I apply even the slightest extra throttle when the 'misfire' is occuring, it will completely stop the hesitation and run perfectly.

I plan to do some data logging with the F/IC software. I'll also monitor the fuel cell data while I recreate the 'misfiring'. My tuner said that I would probably have to add some fuel at those points.

Rich AFR:

90% of the time the car runs at, or close to stoich - except of course in boost when the AFR richens purposefully. When I am decelating (basically with my foot just resting on the pedal at low speeds - or to maintain low speeds speed - say coming down from 60 km/h), the AFRs may jump up as high as the high 12s, but most often something like 13.4 - 13.8. Under these conditions, there is no difference in how the engine performs, sounds or feels. If I just tap and release the throttle under this light deceleration, the AFRs will drop to the expected 18.12.

Overall, the car must be running rich as I have black soot in the tail pipe. And, maybe my misfire is related to plug fouling, but not sure about that as the misfiring occurs only under very specific conditions as mentioned in the first paragraph.

A local parts store has a vacuum gauge that can go up to +10 psi. I'm grabbing that today, plumbing into my vacuum lines, running the tubing through my window and will see what it tells me.

MAF:

I can monitor MAF voltages in the F/IC software. It will you show you MAF input and MAF output voltages. It does look like the F/IC is adjusting the voltages as there are subtle differences between the input and out voltages. I am wating to hear back from AEM as to whether the F/IC seeing the voltages indicates that the MAF wiring is hooked up properly. My tuner does think that the MAF may be messing somewhat with my boost/contributing to my idle issues.

Finally, I have a B1S2 (rear O2 sensor) code (P0137), I believe. I am basically catless as the cat is after the rear O2 sensor. I had them weld the cat in as a 'resonator' of sorts. I've fixed this issue before by adding sparkplug defoulers to get the O2 sensor back out of the exhaust stream a bit. This did not work for this car. Although voltages generally fluctuate between 0.1V and 1.0V, it will occasionally spike above that, which I believe is setting the code. I did read that the rear O2 sensor does influence AFR in this car, so maybe it's related to my issues too. In Torque I can data log, so I'll figure out how to get it to monitor O2 sensor voltage and a couple other paramters at the same time. Maybe it will give me some insight into what's going on. I did fiddle with the fuel map, taking out some fuel at the rich points and it did appropriately affect the AFR, leaning it a bit. But, I'm not sure how this would affect AFRs in the opposite direction - aka, accelerating.

I have asked my tuner if we can do a street tune and he's up for that.
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Old 07-23-2019, 03:10 PM   #333
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Making progress...

1) Bucking at highway on hills (light to moderate throttle)

As I described, I'm getting a bit of bucking (misfiring?) at around 110 - 120 km/h on hills with moderate throttle. Again, if I add a touch more throttle, or ease off the bucking stops. I connected the laptop, monitored AFRs and found the precise spots where the bucking occurs. So, it appears that between 1.3 - 3.3 pounds of boost, I get the bucking. You can see that this is the point were significantly less fuel is taken away in the interest of becoming more rich as this is the onset of boost. Above that, more fuel is added. This is the tuner's map which is currently the one loaded in the F/IC. I will speak to turbokits.com as they have the same cell values in the table.



2) Boost

Monitoring my MAP from the F/IC software, I am definitely getting boost and it starts below 3000 rpm. I have seen as high as ~21 PSIA - around 6 psi boost - but I wasn't full throttle with pedal to the boards. It's difficult to monitor it with the laptop on the passenger seat while driving, so I picked up some stuff today to monitor my boost directly. For now, I will run the tubing through the firewall as I expect I'll end up getting an actual boost gauge.

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Old 07-23-2019, 03:28 PM   #334
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You are definitely correct about the newer smart ecu's and the 2ndary O2 sensor influencing AFR's. I put 2 defoulders in my outback for a p0420 code and I ended getting 2 other O2 sensor codes showing delay in reading and low voltage. I could see the voltages between the bank 1 and 2 sensors with my ultra gauge during driving. It essentially caused it to read very delayed and read lean. I removed it due to this.

Earlier 1st gen ecu's the 2ndary O2 sensor was only for emissions and did not influence AFR's.

Good job trouble shooting so far. I was surprised that you weren't getting boost until 5k rpm, do I'm glad you found the issue
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Old 07-23-2019, 03:38 PM   #335
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You are definitely correct about the newer smart ecu's and the 2ndary O2 sensor influencing AFR's. I put 2 defoulders in my outback for a p0420 code and I ended getting 2 other O2 sensor codes showing delay in reading and low voltage. I could see the voltages between the bank 1 and 2 sensors with my ultra gauge during driving. It essentially caused it to read very delayed and read lean. I removed it due to this.

Earlier 1st gen ecu's the 2ndary O2 sensor was only for emissions and did not influence AFR's.

Good job trouble shooting so far. I was surprised that you weren't getting boost until 5k rpm, do I'm glad you found the issue
Interesting stuff. I was checking out my O2 voltages today for the B1S2 sensor and it stayed at 0 regardless of throttle input, rpms etc. I thought, that's weird. I'm pretty sure a cooked the leads as I had temporarily hooked it up and it was fairly close to the exhaust. I'm going under the car in bit and will confirm if indeed it's shot. I have another O2 sensor I bought a while ago, so I'll pop that on after extending the harness. I'm still have to reinstall my heat shield, so I'll run the wire up and over that. That should keep it safely away from the heat.
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Old 07-23-2019, 04:06 PM   #336
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So glad you found the boost leak. That's awesome.
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Old 07-23-2019, 04:45 PM   #337
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Boost test with gauge

So, I tapped into the MAF line to the F/IC to test my boost using the gauge I picked up. I am definitely getting boost in the lower rpms ~ 2800. If I mash the throttle in third the boost shoots up to 4.5 and tops out. I had a couple of thoughts:

1) the vacuum hoses that connect to both the throttlebody and manifold are held on by pretty flimsy spring clamps. These are certainly not designed to experience positive pressure, only vacuum. I can actually turn the hoses and could easily pull them off with the spring clamps on. I am going to pick up some screw pipe clamps and tighten those down. There are about 6 connection points that I think have the potential to leak.

2) Manifold and throttlebody gaskets. Since it's impractical to pressure test the manifold or throttlebody, I think I may go ahead and order a gasket for each. In both the process of the engine swap and during the turbo build, I removed both items. It's possible they are leaking. I think leaks in these areas would also contribute to my idling issues.
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Old 07-23-2019, 04:45 PM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leegamer View Post
So glad you found the boost leak. That's awesome.
Well, I did but there may be more areas to deal with. See above.
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Old 07-23-2019, 05:07 PM   #339
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Well, I did but there may be more areas to deal with. See above.
The BUG plus is you actually got boost down into the usable rpm range.
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Old 07-23-2019, 05:25 PM   #340
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The BUG plus is you actually got boost down into the usable rpm range.
Oh, for sure, WeeYari! I was so happy to see that. Now 1 - 2 psi doesn't make a huge difference, but it's definitely pulling harder. At 4 psi it's pretty strong. Once I get to my full 8, it should be even more fun!

I found this calculator a long time ago and just recently started plugging numbers in again. It is a simplified calculator, but a good reference anyway. It also seems right in line with my dyno results. Ultimately, I don't care what my numbers are as long it's working to its potential and is safe.

My Corolla engine should put out 126 crank HP stock, due to the xD (detuned, I think) ECU. With a 15% (the average, I guess) driveline loss, that would result in about 107 whp. Assuming 5.4 psi (which the tuner got, not sure how, lol), that equates to 146.32 whp. That's bang on with my dyno numbers.

At 8 psi, I should be able to expect ~165 whp. I think that should suffice in the light little Yaris, haha.

I had a long chat with a member of Toyota Nation a couple of evenings ago. He has the same kit and apparently he dyno'd 195. The kit claims to add 90 - 100 hp to the Corolla, so not sure what all is at work with mine.

Anyway, here's the very simplified boost calculator:

http://www.wallaceracing.com/hp-blower.php

It's important for me to keep my expectations in check and understand fully what this is. I've driven in muscle cars and a friend had a Porsche 930 turbo that was an under 5 second 0 - 60 car. The turbo Yaris will never be this, but it will be very fun to drive.
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Old 07-23-2019, 10:02 PM   #341
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leak-proofing vacuum lines

Just to be sure that I have no leaks, I'm clamping every connection. The OE vacuum lines are held on with spring clamps. You can actually turn the hoses and pull them straight off without removing the clamps. Since these are designed to see vacuum only, I thought I'd 'boost-proof' them just in case I'm losing a bit of boost through these connections.

The OE (larger) hoses are now all screw clamped, much tighter and cannot be rotated or even budged. I read on a turbo forum that zipties are great for securing turbo vacuum tubing, so I did that to all of the connections I made when installing the turbo vacuum lines.



I will be re-checking all of my T-clamps as well. Starting with the throttle body clamp, I noticed that the clamp seems a bit too wide to sit flush to the throttlebody. There is a raised section in the casting at the back of the throttle body that prevents the wide clamp from seating all the way back. The clamp may have been riding up a bit on the throttlebody inlet flare. I trimmed off a bit of the metal on the clamp. The clamp now fits more securely and is just behind the flare. I don't know that it was leaking, but the clamp is seated much better now.



I just want to rule out boost leaks before looking into possible ECU management issues that may be thwarting my full boost.

I have also decided to buy a high flow CAT with O2 sensor bung. I can get a stainless steel one with bung on eBay for about $45.00. I might be able to get away without my defoulers if I install the high flow CAT, and be rid of the annoting P0137 code. I'll just cut my pipe with my sawzall, and clamp the CAT into the straight section.
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Old 07-24-2019, 01:34 AM   #342
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Stuttering/ bucking at low boost

I've been doing some research on my bucking issue at moderate throttle between 1 and 3 psi. I compared the tuner's map and the basemap for TK. The fuel cell values in that area of the maps are identical, so not sure what's causing that since it started doing it after my tune. The tuner recommends adding some fuel in those cells. I"ll test drive, replicating the stuttering and monitor my AFRs. If lean, I'll add some fuel. The research I did suggests a couple possibilities. 1) radical changes in adjacent cells can cause bucking at certain loads, or 2) I need to wire in parallel a 2.2K ohm resistor between the crank mag wires. Apparently several turboed Scion cars have this issue. Boomslang started adding these resistors to there PnP harnesses around 2007. I have a 2008 Scion ECU.I've been doing some research on my bucking issue at moderate throttle between 1 and 3 psi. I compared the tuner's map and the basemap for TK. The fuel cell values in that area of the maps are identical, so not sure what's causing that since it started doing it after my tune. The tuner recommends adding some fuel in those cells. I"ll test drive, replicating the stuttering and monitor my AFRs. If lean, I'll add some fuel. The research I did suggests a couple possibilities. 1) radical changes in adjacent cells can cause bucking at certain loads, or 2) I need to wire in parallel a 2.2K ohm resistor between the crank mag wires. Apparently several turboed Scion cars have this issue. Boomslang started adding these resistors to there PnP harnesses around 2007. I have a 2008 Scion ECU.
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