License plate bracket for '09 that doesn't require putting holes in the bumper?

[BennyLava]

Hi all. Some stupid TX state trooper has been bothering my wife lately when she drives our '09 yaris sedan to work. She says that's all he does is sit there all day and bother people who have no front plate. But I really don't want to put any holes in the nice, unmolested front bumper on the car.

Is there a license plate mounting kit that I can buy, that does not require putting holes in the front bumper cover? All the ones I've found involve some kind of drilling.

[MadMax]

He's not being stupid, he's doing his job:

§502.404. OPERATION OF VEHICLE WITHOUT LICENSE PLATE OR REGISTRATION INSIGNIA. (a) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a public highway during a registration period a passenger car or commercial motor vehicle that does not display two license plates, at the front and rear of the vehicle, that have been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the period.
(b) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a public highway during a registration period a passenger car or commercial motor vehicle, other than a vehicle assigned license plates for the registration period, that does not properly display
the registration insignia issued by the department that establishes that the license plates have been validated for the period.
(c) A person commits an offense if the person operates on a public highway during a registration period a road tractor, motorcycle, trailer, or semitrailer that does not display a license plate, attached to the rear of the vehicle, that has been:
(1) assigned by the department for the period; or
(2) validated by a registration insignia issued by the department that establishes that the vehicle is registered for the period.
(d) Subsections (a) and (b) do not apply to a dealer operating a vehicle as provided by law.
(e) An offense under this section is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Be happy that he is giving her a warning and not a citation.

One option other than mounting the plate to the bumper is a holder that uses the front tow hook.

Other suggestions here.

Given that she has been warned, I would recommend getting this violation corrected as soon as possible as usually there is little tolerance by DPS troopers for those who ignore warning about equipment offenses.

[BennyLava]

Thank you for the link. But I'm afraid the other link that you may have been directing me to, has died. Although I will just make my own bracket like they did in that thread.

As for the HIpo he's warned her three times. He can't do anything because the Texas state legislature was supposed to make a decision on the issue and didn't. So until january 6th of next year, technically its not illegal not to run a front plate. They can't make up their minds whether they want to do away with the law or not. He either doesn't know or like most LEO's is just being lazy and sitting there making sure it looks like he's pulling enough people over by watching for no front plates. Every time she passes by that spot he's got someone facing her direction, that has no front plate. What a.... douche.

[Absolutely Red 12]

Originally Posted by BennyLava

Hi all. Some stupid TX state trooper has been bothering my wife lately when she drives our '09 yaris sedan to work. She says that's all he does is sit there all day and bother people who have no front plate. But I really don't want to put any holes in the nice, unmolested front bumper on the car.

Is there a license plate mounting kit that I can buy, that does not require putting holes in the front bumper cover? All the ones I've found involve some kind of drilling.

Look here:
Uses your tow hook

http://www.moweraxle.com/licenseplat...modelcars.html

One of these should work, just find out the tow hook thread size, and length you will need to clear the bumper.

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by BennyLava

Thank you for the link. But I'm afraid the other link that you may have been directing me to, has died. Although I will just make my own bracket like they did in that thread.

As for the HIpo he's warned her three times. He can't do anything because the Texas state legislature was supposed to make a decision on the issue and didn't. So until january 6th of next year, technically its not illegal not to run a front plate. They can't make up their minds whether they want to do away with the law or not. He either doesn't know or like most LEO's is just being lazy and sitting there making sure it looks like he's pulling enough people over by watching for no front plates. Every time she passes by that spot he's got someone facing her direction, that has no front plate. What a.... douche.

Sorry, but the info about the Texas legislature is incorrect. The law as provide still stands until such time as it is changed, therefore she is potentially risking a citation by not having a front plate displayed. That law has been in effect since Sept. 1, 1995.

He's not being a douche if he hasn't written her up on it by now. She wouldn't be so lucky in this municipality, most officers I ride with will not give second chances and justifiably so...

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by MadMax

Sorry, but the info about the Texas legislature is incorrect. The law as provide still stands until such time as it is changed, therefore she is potentially risking a citation by not having a front plate displayed. That law has been in effect since Sept. 1, 1995.

He's not being a douche if he hasn't written her up on it by now. She wouldn't be so lucky in this municipality, most officers I ride with will not give second chances and justifiably so...

You're right. It is the law (and I follow it). Similar laws exist in many states, but from what I understand, Texas is among the most stringent re enforcement. I'm one of those 'I wasn't born here, but I got here as fast as I could' people, and I think other states could learn quite a few good things about how things are run in Texas, but IMO the stringent front plate enforcement isn't one of those things. I also don't understand the comparative lack of logic re enforcement of other things. To explain what I mean, I do need to bring up those dreaded words..........this is what they do in California (and I am NOT one of those people who wants to change ANYTHING about Texas to make it like California). I don't agree with what they do in California (or at least did when I lived there), but I understand the logic -- they're following the money. In California (at the time, and possibly now) a missing front plate is/was a fix it ticket that just required a sign off and didn't generate a fine. I saw MANY tickets dangling from under windshield wipers in handicap spaces in California...enen though people tried not to do it because they knew they were playing Russian roulette re a potential fine. I also heard of (but never saw) people getting fined for littering in California.

I've seen hundreds of cars in Texas (in the last 5-6 years) parked in handicap spaces with neither handicap plates nor a handicap placard displayed, and not even one of these vehicles had a well deserved ticket under the wiper. I've also had multiple lifelong Texas residents (I know, anecdotal evidence) tell me they've never seen nor heard of an LEO giving a ticket for a handicap space violation. I've also seen people litter in the vicinity of an LEO in Texas without getting a ticket for it.....despite the fact that the 'Don't Mess With Texas' signs and campaign were initiated to target littering. Littering is still, from what I've seen, a fairly significant problem in Texas (much more so than what I've seen in California).

Do missing front plate tickets in Texas generate fines? If so, is this up to local officials, or is this statewide? If front pate tickets generate fines, and there is an accompanying 'emphasis on fining', then why aren't LEOs in Texas like white on rice when it comes to issuing tickets for handicap space violations? I dont see how it could be for a lack of LEOs. in my area we have Constable's Office Deputies, Sheriff's Office Deputies, DPS Troopers, and ISD Police (Conroe, Klein, and others).

P.S - Nevermind (Redface, Redface, Redface (icons not available on edit)) It would have helped if I'd read the statute you provided, and not just the text you wrote (Redface). I do wonder though, why (in Texas) I never see a handicap space violator ticketed given that I see many LEOs in such areas.

[BennyLava]

Originally Posted by MadMax

Sorry, but the info about the Texas legislature is incorrect. The law as provide still stands until such time as it is changed, therefore she is potentially risking a citation by not having a front plate displayed. That law has been in effect since Sept. 1, 1995.

He's not being a douche if he hasn't written her up on it by now. She wouldn't be so lucky in this municipality, most officers I ride with will not give second chances and justifiably so...

Not according to a judge here in johnson county. Mother inlaw works in the county clerks office and we were talking about this. A guy sent in an article talking about how the TX state legislature failed to make a decision on it and won't meet on it for 1 year. Well a little less than a year now. The judge dismissed the ticket and she asked why and he said if they don't do something on a law, there can be no law. You'd have laws that were floating around out there for no reason and laws that were supposed to go away that didn't. He said that the way that it works in TX, its suspended until they make a decision on it and put it in the books. So technically, I could cite that as a precedent and get out of it either way.

[daf62757]

I think you legal eagles are missing the original question.

The only way to mount a front license plate is to drill through the plastic. If that is an issue, you probably could get some adhesive that is strong enough to hold the bracket in place but if it falls off, you would have to get another plate and I suspect that would cost a lot, both in dollars and time.

[jpmck03]

I'm not sure I 100% follow the logic about the whole front plate thing...

The current law is you have to have a front plate in TX... but the legislature met to discuss changing the law, but made no decision, so now the law magically doesn't count until they meet again to decide to get rid of the law again?

Huh?

Anywho, here's a nice way to have a front plate:



Tow Hook License Plate Bracket

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by BennyLava

Not according to a judge here in johnson county. Mother inlaw works in the county clerks office and we were talking about this. A guy sent in an article talking about how the TX state legislature failed to make a decision on it and won't meet on it for 1 year. Well a little less than a year now. The judge dismissed the ticket and she asked why and he said if they don't do something on a law, there can be no law. You'd have laws that were floating around out there for no reason and laws that were supposed to go away that didn't. He said that the way that it works in TX, its suspended until they make a decision on it and put it in the books. So technically, I could cite that as a precedent and get out of it either way.

Then hope you get that same judge! Otherwise, if you get a different one you're not going to be a happy camper!

That particular judge can rule any way he wants, but the state law still stands regardless of whether there is a change proposed or not.

And cite his rulings all you want, it isn't considered "case law" as the ruling isn't by a higher court.

Read and learn: http://faculty.law.lsu.edu/toddbruno...persuasive.htm

[BennyLava]

Originally Posted by daf62757

I think you legal eagles are missing the original question.

The only way to mount a front license plate is to drill through the plastic. If that is an issue, you probably could get some adhesive that is strong enough to hold the bracket in place but if it falls off, you would have to get another plate and I suspect that would cost a lot, both in dollars and time.

I'm going to make one that screws to some solid part underneath the car and sticks out in front of the bumper by about 1/4 of an inch.

Originally Posted by jpmck03

The current law is you have to have a front plate in TX... but the legislature met to discuss changing the law, but made no decision, so now the law magically doesn't count until they meet again to decide to get rid of the law again?

Originally Posted by MadMax

Then hope you get that same judge! Otherwise, if you get a different one you're not going to be a happy camper!

That particular judge can rule any way he wants, but the state law still stands regardless of whether there is a change proposed or not.

And cite his rulings all you want, it isn't considered "case law" as the ruling isn't by a higher court.

Read and learn: http://faculty.law.lsu.edu/toddbruno...persuasive.htm

Ok I have since asked her to clear it up. She said that he did not rule based on his opinion, but on the way the law works in TX regarding the TX state legislature. That particular law had 6 years to live. Its time was up. Therefore, the TX state legislature HAS to make a ruling on whether or not the law will continue to exist or die. If they do not, then it dies. That means, that it CAN NOT be illegal to run no license plate. No law, no illegal. Its the exact same thing, according to him, as if there is no law saying you can't step on and squish a turnip. There is no law, so you can.

No ifs, ands or buts. This law that is in place regarding the expiration dates of other laws, makes sure that the legislature does their job and takes action on laws and doesn't just leave it for the next guy and make a mess for everyone. Therefore, until they convene next year in Jan, technically, its completely legal in TX to run no front plate. Because there is no law one way or another regarding it. Its dead, but they can revive it. My guess is that they will. He said that he read that there was some mistake, and during session, the law did not get brought up in time. It didn't get entered into the list of laws that they were going to be working on. And it can't be brought up again for a year.

Also I didn't say you wouldn't still get a ticket for it. Any of you who've ever dealt with the cops know they know jack squat about the law they're paid to enforce. They're just as likely to just write you the ticket and let you deal with the judge and let him worry about if it was actually legal or not. Not caring that you're going to have to pay court costs and such. That's just how they roll. Typical government fashion. And that's why I'm putting a plate on regardless of if its illegal right now or not. For the cops to actually stop bothering people about it, the TX state legislature would probably have to come out and say "We did away with that stupid law".

[Yarflana]

Fricken' love this...removes the stock look too!

Originally Posted by jpmck03

I'm not sure I 100% follow the logic about the whole front plate thing...

The current law is you have to have a front plate in TX... but the legislature met to discuss changing the law, but made no decision, so now the law magically doesn't count until they meet again to decide to get rid of the law again?

Huh?

Anywho, here's a nice way to have a front plate:



Tow Hook License Plate Bracket

[Yarflana]

I am close to recommending the mods move this to the "talk about other crap" area and keep the posts actually addressing the license plate fix.

[jpmck03]

Originally Posted by BennyLava

I'm going to make one that screws to some solid part underneath the car and sticks out in front of the bumper by about 1/4 of an inch.

You might have a hard time doing that... I don't think that there are too many solid locations on the sedan to mount a bracket to, I know on the liftback there's quite a bit of plastic bumper and lining up front.

Originally Posted by BennyLava

Ok I have since asked her to clear it up...

I suppose that that makes a lot more sense. The way I read it at first was that because the legislature talked about it that it suddenly wasn't a law, and didn't see any expiration on the law that MadMax quoted. Didn't think you were full of it or anything... more of a "huh?!" moment.

Originally Posted by Yarflana

I am close to recommending the mods move this to the "talk about other crap" area and keep the posts actually addressing the license plate fix.

I don't think that's necessary, we're still talking about how to mount it, and haven't strayed too far off topic... we're still talking about license plates, right?

Edit:
Another suggestion: http://yarisworld.com/forums/showpos...6&postcount=21

[BennyLava]

Originally Posted by Yarflana

I am close to recommending the mods move this to the "talk about other crap" area and keep the posts actually addressing the license plate fix.

I knew I'd get the standard crowd of legal eagles as soon as I posted this thread.

As for that hole in the bumper pic...

Did someone just poke out those holes that come stock in the bumper? If so, does anyone have some kind of link to that particular mounting bracket? I looked around for a while but all I can find is stuff where they want you to drill holes in your freakin' bumper. I wouldn't mind if my bumper cover already had holes. But no one has ever put any so I don't want to now. No reason to ruin a perfectly good bumper cover like that.

Also I thought about this: (but the wife doesn't want it)

http://www.altecproducts.com/index.htm

[jpmck03]

Originally Posted by BennyLava

I knew I'd get the standard crowd of legal eagles as soon as I posted this thread.

Sorry...

Originally Posted by BennyLava

As for that hole in the bumper pic...

Did someone just poke out those holes that come stock in the bumper? If so, does anyone have some kind of link to that particular mounting bracket? ...

If you are referring to my photo, you just pop out the little plastic circle (or square) in the bumper to gain access to where you would attach your tow hook and the license plate from screws into that... The link to where you buy it is right below the photo.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by MadMax

He's not being stupid, he's doing his job:



Be happy that he is giving her a warning and not a citation.

One option other than mounting the plate to the bumper is a holder that uses the front tow hook.

Other suggestions here.

Given that she has been warned, I would recommend getting this violation corrected as soon as possible as usually there is little tolerance by DPS troopers for those who ignore warning about equipment offenses.

There is currently a thread on this subject in the Texas forum on city-data.com. That thread started the same day (3-5-13) as the last two posts on this thread. I found it an interesting read. One person chimed in from New York, informing readers that a no front plate ticket costs $65.00 there. Another person posted from Texas who had been fined $150.00 for no front plate while driving on I-10 in Texas. Perhaps most interesting were the comments from a police officer in Texas. He came across, IMO, as very level headed, very reasonable.