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Old 09-26-2010, 12:10 PM   #1
trini_per4mance
 
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HELP PLEEEASE!!! my yaris starts whenever I step on the clutch pedal.

Hey guys, I know it's been a while. But I'm only doing 420k miles now on my Yaris, as I no longer work that job anymore.

Here's my first ever TECHNICAL problem with my Yaris and probably the first problem that I have ever come across that also has senior Toyota technicians STOMPED!

In order to start my car, I have to step on the clutch pedal all the way down to activate the safety switch behind the pedal.

If my ignition is on, to where all the lights on the dashboard are on, and I step on the clutch pedal all the way down, once I activate that safety switch behind the pedal, the car starts by itself without me even having to turn the key. (WEIRD)

Now if I leave my foot on the clutch pedal to where that switch is activated, the starter stays engaged.

Meaning, the starter is spinning on the flywheel while the engine is running.

Once I am driving and I press the clutch pedal all the way down to where it activates that safety switch so I can change gears, the starter engages itself while the engine is running. (ANNOYING)

Every time this happens the teeth on my starter is grinding on the teeth on the flywheel, hence damaging the teeth on both, slowly but surely.

Now because my car still has the original clutch on it, I have to press the clutch pedal all the way down to disengage the clutch so I can change gears.

I know it's an ELECTRICAL problem. But it has senior Toyota technicians who has been with Toyota for 25-27 years STOMPED!

Now before anyone suggests changing the safety switch behind the clutch pedal. Well that wouldn't make sense, because that switch is there to ONLY close the loop in the starting circuit of the car.

I've already changed the starter relay and still got the problem.

One technician suggested the starter ignition switch located by the steering wheel right where you put the key into the ignition. (Haven't done this as yet)

One technician also suggested checking the Body (GROUND) ECU located under the dash.(Haven't done this as yet, also)

Any other suggestions or RESOLUTIONS???

Thanx!
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Old 09-26-2010, 12:31 PM   #2
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I'd just get rid of the clutch switch.

I want to do this anyway becasuse I hate that I have to puch the clutch to start it.

Just my .02
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Old 09-26-2010, 12:38 PM   #3
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sounds to me the starter circuit is always on as if you had your hand twisting the key the whole time!

get the ignition barrel and wiring checked, gotta be a short circuit somewhere!
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Old 09-26-2010, 01:42 PM   #4
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Starter Prob

It sounds to me that the starter switch in the ignition switch assembly on the steering column is stuck in the start position. You can open the circuit by snipping one of the 2 black wires that go to the starter switch and see if your clutch pedal scenario is still there...

You could have pulled out the connector, but that would in most instances, kill the ignition as well, so it wouldn't turn the motor over anyway....

I'm not sure tat is the "problem" as the starter is usually released after the engine starts, and mine stops energizing the starter as soon as the motor starts, however I have a different year model from you, and there might have been changes in the ECU that makes mine a little different from yours.

Hmm.... the IGN Switch assembly is qite expen$ive so if that's what the problem is, you just might think of a push-to-start button, or an ordinary pushbutton switch tied across the 2 black wires to start your motor.

You won't have to remove more than the top and bottom covers on the steering column to do these things (2 minutes tops to remove em) Just turn the steering wheel to allow you to remove 1 screw on each side of the cover (you can see it) and one under the column.
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:02 PM   #5
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my suggestion is also in the ignition... most likely the connection from AM2 to ST2, or there is a short to power(like a chafed wire making a connection to the starting system)...

but my primary suggestion is with the ignition switch...

my reasoning with this suggestion is from looking at the EWD, and finding that the only two things(according to EWD) that could cause this are the relay(already changed), and the ignition switch...
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:51 PM   #6
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??? Soleniod Switch stuck in the closed position ???
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:13 PM   #7
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get a schematic and see which wire is energized in the start position I bet you the ignition switch is the problem. maybe temporarily you could pull the starter relay after you start it to save your flywheel. if you could send me a wire diagram I could help alot more though.
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:22 PM   #8
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420,000 miles, and you already have your first problem? Toyota: this is completely unacceptable.

J/K


Sorry, I have no suggestions.
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:03 PM   #9
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My bet is on the ST relay (in the under hood fuse panel). Pop it out, tap it on a hard surface, put it back in, and see if the issue stops. If so, replace the relay, as once the contacts start sticking, they will keep doing so.
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Old 09-27-2010, 12:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwtech View Post
get a schematic and see which wire is energized in the start position I bet you the ignition switch is the problem. maybe temporarily you could pull the starter relay after you start it to save your flywheel. if you could send me a wire diagram I could help alot more though.
i have the EWD... i came to the same conclusion of the ignition switch...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTScott View Post
My bet is on the ST relay (in the under hood fuse panel). Pop it out, tap it on a hard surface, put it back in, and see if the issue stops. If so, replace the relay, as once the contacts start sticking, they will keep doing so.
this is the first time that i have been able to catch you and be a troll to you... just playfully though...

in the OP, it stated that the relay was already changed... problem still exists...
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:20 AM   #11
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remove the switch and place it on ur dash. then put a red button on it that says start and u my friend has done what most ppl wish they could do :)

on a serious level i would change the ignition....... that is probably the issue.
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:34 AM   #12
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starting engine with clutch seems to me like start&stop system where the clutch is activating engine after it was stopped on the lights etc. but the engine is started with the upper switch so you can only push the clutch 1 cm and the engine turn on.
the lower switch is mentioned just to close the circuit and safely start the engine. very weird this case
but you have 420 K miles which is 675 924 Km and you are complaining about your first problem
do the trick with the start button as it was mentioned here
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Old 09-27-2010, 05:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver_echo View Post
i have the EWD... i came to the same conclusion of the ignition switch...



this is the first time that i have been able to catch you and be a troll to you... just playfully though...

in the OP, it stated that the relay was already changed... problem still exists...

I saw that, but I still say it's the relay. How many times have you seen a dealer claim that they checked something, but they really did not or didn't properly do so?
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTScott View Post
I saw that, but I still say it's the relay. How many times have you seen a dealer claim that they checked something, but they really did not or didn't properly do so?
I actually never took my Yaris back to the dealer to have them do anything on it. Remember I ran out of warranty only after 3 months of buying the the car. I only know everyone at the dealer b'cuz of my high miles everyone knows my car and always look out for me every time I visit the parts dept, from managers to salesmen to technicians. I'm the only person that works on my car. I actually bought a new relay myself and replaced it myself and the problem still exists.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:22 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by trini_per4mance View Post
I actually never took my Yaris back to the dealer to have them do anything on it. Remember I ran out of warranty only after 3 months of buying the the car. I only know everyone at the dealer b'cuz of my high miles everyone knows my car and always look out for me every time I visit the parts dept, from managers to salesmen to technicians. I'm the only person that works on my car. I actually bought a new relay myself and replaced it myself and the problem still exists.
What's the part number of the relay you have in there now (just to verify that it is the correct relay)?

From there I would check the following:

1. Ignition Switch - Remove the connector from the key switch and with the key off, check continuity between pin 5 (where the gray wire connects to) and pin 7 (where the black wire connects to). Then, move the key to each position and recheck. There should only be continuity between those two pins when the key is held in the start position.


2. While you have that connector off, on the harness side, measure the voltage between the gray wire and the black wire. It should read 12V. If it reads 0V, then there is a short in the wiring. If it reads more than zero, but less than one volt, then the automatic cranking circuit in the ECM is bad. This is the circuit that allows you to just bump the key and then the starter cranks by itself until the car starts. If that is the issue, you can do either of two things - Replace the ECM, or simply eliminate the "bump" starting (which you can do by cutting one wire in the under hood fuse box).
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:01 PM   #16
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I saw that, but I still say it's the relay. How many times have you seen a dealer claim that they checked something, but they really did not or didn't properly do so?
wait, the stealer does what they are supposed to?
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Old 09-27-2010, 02:50 PM   #17
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wait, the stealer does what they are supposed to?
they do it in my case. Of course, their are benefits to being 6'2" tall and looking like a mountain.
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Old 09-28-2010, 06:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTScott View Post
What's the part number of the relay you have in there now (just to verify that it is the correct relay)?

From there I would check the following:

1. Ignition Switch - Remove the connector from the key switch and with the key off, check continuity between pin 5 (where the gray wire connects to) and pin 7 (where the black wire connects to). Then, move the key to each position and recheck. There should only be continuity between those two pins when the key is held in the start position.


2. While you have that connector off, on the harness side, measure the voltage between the gray wire and the black wire. It should read 12V. If it reads 0V, then there is a short in the wiring. If it reads more than zero, but less than one volt, then the automatic cranking circuit in the ECM is bad. This is the circuit that allows you to just bump the key and then the starter cranks by itself until the car starts. If that is the issue, you can do either of two things - Replace the ECM, or simply eliminate the "bump" starting (which you can do by cutting one wire in the under hood fuse box).
I'll definitely try this. I'll let u know how it works out. Thanx!
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