Anyone working on tuning??

[jdubau55]

Im wondering if out of all these vendors and what not, is anybody working on tuning? I mean, we have a DOHC 1.5L motor that only makes 106 hp? I mean come on the B16 makes 160 and its been around for over a decade. I really feel like there is some power that can be unlocked somewhere in the 1NZ.

[acrbill]

Originally Posted by jdubau55

Im wondering if out of all these vendors and what not, is anybody working on tuning? I mean, we have a DOHC 1.5L motor that only makes 106 hp? I mean come on the B16 makes 160 and its been around for over a decade. I really feel like there is some power that can be unlocked somewhere in the 1NZ.

I'm sure the difference lies in the head port design. Even still, with 10.5:1 compression there has to be several HP hiding. I would like to see a premium fuel tune.

[Moose]

Our engine is just not made for power- it is made for fuel economy. You would have to change everything that bolts on, literally, as well as much of the internals (namely the head, cams, and valves) and the ECU. Might as well just do a swap.

I'll put it this way- there are 8 and 10 cylinder F1 engines out there smaller than the V6 in your grandmother's 1997 Chevy Malibu that make 4 times the power- just because the smaller F1 engine makes the power does not mean that it is feasible or even possible to do the same thing to Granny's Mali-boo. See where I am going with this? Certain engines are made from the ground up with one thing in mind, and every last detail is engineered to achieve that.

[largeorangefont]

Originally Posted by acrbill

I'm sure the difference lies in the head port design. Even still, with 10.5:1 compression there has to be several HP hiding. I would like to see a premium fuel tune.

Yea bumping up the timing and leaning it out a bit should gain 10-15% depending on mods.A good piggyback would be nice.

[Dragonacc]

Originally Posted by Moose

Our engine is just not made for power- it is made for fuel economy. You would have to change everything that bolts on, literally, as well as much of the internals (namely the head, cams, and valves) and the ECU. Might as well just do a swap.

I'll put it this way- there are 8 and 10 cylinder F1 engines out there smaller than the V6 in your grandmother's 1997 Chevy Malibu that make 4 times the power- just because the smaller F1 engine makes the power does not mean that it is feasible or even possible to do the same thing to Granny's Mali-boo. See where I am going with this? Certain engines are made from the ground up with one thing in mind, and every last detail is engineered to achieve that.

+1

The 1nz-fe will never make the power a B16 will make. I mean, the 2zz-ge isn't even a real match for a B18 and it's Toyota's best 4 banger performance wise.

On the other hand, there's no doubt you can find a few more horsepower lurking inside the engine tune, but you'll have to use premium gas.

Personally, I'd stick with suspension mods, the car will never be fast in a straight line without a really significant investment.

[ChinoCharles]

Don't get offended by what I'm about to say if you disagree.

Saying there isn't any power potential in the 1NZ is bullshit. We have established this already. Someone is running around putting 180 to the ground in a Yaris on stock internals. Nobody will know how much the Yaris will or won't handle until ZPI's car blows up. PERIOD.

In the meantime, Ashley hit the nail on the head. If you want to see power our of your N/A Yaris (re: if you can't afford a turbo) you're going to want to start bolting on some less restrictive parts, then go out and give your car a good tune w/ a piggyback. From the graphs I'm looking at, 15-20% looks to be conservative. I think 115-120 on the ground from a Yaris with a relatively small investment is feasible, and a 20-25% increase in horsepower over stock isn't going to cut your engine life in half.

The power potential in this car lies in the restrictive intake/exhaust hardware and the gas-mileage-only stock tune.

[Dragonacc]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

Saying there isn't any power potential in the 1NZ is bullshit. We have established this already. Someone is running around putting 180 to the ground in a Yaris on stock internals. Nobody will know how much the Yaris will or won't handle until ZPI's car blows up. PERIOD.

I understand what you are saying, but the return on your investment just isn't there with this car.

If you want a fast hatch buy a MS3, a $1000 piggyback yields 70whp on an otherwise stock car, that's a nice return.

You'll never get that kind of power out of the Yaris for the same money even considering the higher MSRP.

(No doubt a 180whp Yaris is probably a blast to drive though)

[ChinoCharles]

Can you buy an MS3 brand new for 13k? Didn't think so.

MS3 = 23k... give me 10 grand to spend on a Yaris and I'll put it on the front page.

[Dragonacc]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

Can you buy an MS3 brand new for 13k? Didn't think so.

MS3 = 23k... give me 10 grand to spend on a Yaris and I'll put it on the front page.

Re-read my comment, I said even considering the higher msrp. Meaning, you can't build a Yaris for $23,000 that will put down 230whp and for another $1000 put down 300whp.

And even if you manage to do it, how long will the motor last? Even with a fully built (forged) motor you won't see 100,000 miles, and you won't see the same level of drivability.

EDIT: Don't forget upgraded front suspension, bigger wheels, brakes, independent rear suspension, LSD, you'll need all those things too.

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by Dragonacc

Re-read my comment, I said even considering the higher msrp. Meaning, you can't build a Yaris for $23,000k that will put down 230whp and for another $1000 put down 300whp.

And even if you manage to do it, how long will the motor last? Even with a fully build (forged) motor you won't see 100,000 miles, and you won't see the same level of drivability.

EDIT: Don't forget upgraded front suspension, bigger wheels, brakes, independent rear suspension, LSD, you'll need all those things too.

don't underestimate the power of the homegrown tuner... we have connections to get great hook ups on parts, we have the tools and know how to install them our selves... so.... I bet you I can take my $13k Yaris, drivetrain swap it myself and tune the motor in my fucking garage for $10k, yes I am considdering all the custom parts,mounts and what ever bullshit I would have to fab up, but geuss what, I work at a machine shop, my brother works at a machine shop, and my step dad works at a machine shop... I am sure between the 3 of us I can get what I need for a very limited cost (Beer & material)

[Dragonacc]

Originally Posted by Black Yaris

don't underestimate the power of the homegrown tuner... we have connections to get great hook ups on parts, we have the tools and know how to install them our selves... so.... I bet you I can take my $13k Yaris, drivetrain swap it myself and tune the motor in my fucking garage for $10k, yes I am considdering all the custom parts,mounts and what ever bullshit I would have to fab up, but geuss what, I work at a machine shop, my brother works at a machine shop, and my step dad works at a machine shop... I am sure between the 3 of us I can get what I need for a very limited cost (Beer & material)

You aren't an average example.

I just hate to see people throw large amounts of money into a platform that may ultimately be a disappointment.

Also, using the MS3 as an example again, you get to finance the cost of all the extra performance because it's built into the price of the car.

I'd hate to see someone's credit card bill if they bought a Yaris and tried to buy $10,000+ worth of parts to make it equal.

In the end I wouldn't criticize someone for spending that kind of money on their car, it's their money and their car, but if they asked my opinion before the fact I would sure as hell try and get them to reconsider.

(Using your example of an engine swap would cause problems with emissions for most people and could ruin the handling of the car depending on what they were swapping.)

[Nutzoids]

Part of it...For me anyway... Is the pride in knowing that it is something I DID!

Also...MODing my Yaris makes it Unique to my standards... and honestly... you can't put a price on that! Honestly...

There are people... who think like you Dragonacc... Just buy it and let someone else worry about fixing/building it... You have what I call the new generation of thinking... Why fix the toilet when I can call a plumber…

Plus Financing money SUX... MS3…23,000 sticker…after tax and tags and all the other dealer BS… you can’t get it for under 25,000!

My Yaris cost me $170 a month... with $2,000 Down… a MS3 with 2grand down will cost me $450 a month… do you know how much EXTRA money I have with such a low car payment... enough to do my own work on my dream car...

Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying your wrong, I'm also not saying I'm right... But web pages like this cater to and attract people who are just not satisfied with the norm...

And one day... When my Turbo Yaris pulls up next to a MS3 and I beat the living shit out of them...because my car weighs 1/2 of what there’s does... and I'm pushing 160hp/160lbs of torque... then we'll why the $20,000 total Yaris is better then that $25,000 total MS3!

Just my $0.02!

[ChinoCharles]

Power, weight, none of it matters... well, it does, but bottom line is the track times. 2200 pounds gets down the line pretty f'n quick with a little bit to back it up.

Bottom line is nobody here should be waxing poetic about what the Yaris can or can't do unless you've spent some time in front of a dyno or out on a track with it. Anything less and you're just another wannabe blowing smoke without the real-world experience to back it up. I don't give a shit how many 350's you've swapped. This is FAR from a 350. A Yaris is a detuned motorcycle on four wheels next to a Chevelle.

And Nutzoids has the idea... us midwestern boys have an advantage not even those Los Angeles tuners have... lots of machine shops hungry for work.

IF YOU HAVE TO ASK... YOU JUST WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND...

[Moose]

The last part of this argument is making me laugh.

Sooner or later you guys will come to the same realization I came to in my Civic- you can put $10k into your Yaris and make it as fast as a WRX or whatever you aim for, but in the end, it's just a fast, $23,000 YARIS.

If you want a $23,000 fast car, buy a $23,000 fast car!

I'll still tinker with my Yaris, probably suspension and maybe some wheels, but I'll never try to transform this car into something it's not. For those of you that have the funds and patience (and may I suggest another daily driver) to do so, have at it- it's your car, not mine, and I won't flame you for doing so.

:cheers:

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by Moose

The last part of this argument is making me laugh.

Sooner or later you guys will come to the same realization I came to in my Civic- you can put $10k into your Yaris and make it as fast as a WRX or whatever you aim for, but in the end, it's just a fast. $23,000 YARIS.

If you want a $23,000 fast car, buy a $23,000 fast car!

I'll still tinker with my Yaris, probably suspension and maybe some wheels, but I'll never try to transform this car into something it's not. For those of you that have the funds and patience (and may I suggest another daily driver) to do so, have at it- it's your car, not mine, and I won't flame you for doing so.

:cheers:

We are not out to make corvette killers, we just want a lil more power... and we know we can get it for a minimal amount of $$$

[acrbill]

It has already been proven that bolt ons and head porting are not much help. Some Scion guy tried all sorts of mods and only made a few HP for several thousand dollars outlay.

The head design is probably a limiting factor and the tune almost certainly is.
There is nothing you can do about the head design unless a head from another car would work.

A piggyback is probably not a good answer since most cannot control timing and change the rev limiter.

Lastly, saying the engine can handle x amount of HP since some guy with a turbo put it down does not mean the engine will survive an all out N/A build.
N/A motors (I'm talking about small 4 cyls.) need to spin to very high RPM's to make power. High RPM puts a lot of stress on internal parts.

[ChinoCharles]

Originally Posted by acrbill

A piggyback is probably not a good answer since most cannot control timing and change the rev limiter.

It is ambiguous, open-ended statements like this that make me slap my forehead. Probably... most... are you sure or are you just saying what you think and not what you know.

EDIT: OK, OK... that was kind of harsh, but do you see where I'm coming from? I know you know your shit Bill, but I'm not convinced you're speaking from experience on this car. If you do, please tell us what would go on the 1NZ first... that would solve a lot of problems!

And for the record, the goal is not to build this engine as N/A yet... I'm not sitting here saying that a 1NZ won't explode running 12:1 at 8500 RPM. I am saying it won't explode putting 120 to the ground as a daily driver, and I don't think it will from a 50 shot of nitrous done correctly, either. I'll let you guys know if I'm ever sure on the second part.

[Moose]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

It is ambiguous, open-ended statements like this that make me slap my forehead. Probably... most... are you sure or are you just saying what you think and not what you know.

I can say, with the most certainty, that even the best piggybacks are nothing without extensive internal modifications to back them up. There's only so much that you can do with a stock cam profile, head, injectors, and the like.