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Old 08-30-2006, 09:06 AM   #1
pauljk
 
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Reluctant upshift to 3rd while cold (auto trans)

My Yaris Liftback automatic now has about 5500 miles on it, and it's been doing something a bit strange in the morning. I leave the house and go about .25 miles and 2 stop signs at less than 25 mph before turning onto a 35 mph road. When I accelerate on that road, it doesn't want to shift out of 2nd. So, at 30 mph, the engine's at 3000 rpm (I have a Scangauge).

If I back off the gas at that point, i.e. stop accelerating, but don't take my foot off entirely, it stays in 2nd. If I back off enough that the car starts slowing down, it will finally upshift. The cold light is on during this time. Once the cold light goes off, everything's normal.

I know it's not supposed to go to 4th gear until cold light goes off, but it seems rather strange for a cold engine to want to be above 3000 rpm.

Has anyone else run into this? I've only noticed this recently, but then the weather was a lot hotter during my earlier miles.

Also, when I first start it in the garage with it still in park, it ramps up to over 1500 rpm. Seems rather high to me. It gradually comes down, or will drop when I shift to reverse.

Paul
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Old 08-30-2006, 10:48 AM   #2
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I have noticed the same with my auto sedan. This was discussed on another board I participate in. Seems like a common problem (if it is a problem) in cold starts /driving. I usually let the car warm up a minute (cold lite goes out) before taking off.
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Old 08-30-2006, 12:41 PM   #3
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Same happends to me.
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Old 08-30-2006, 12:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MWill517
I usually let the car warm up a minute (cold lite goes out) before taking off.
That is a good habit anyway. Engines hate running cold... shoot, if you're in cold weather and you have a garage a block heater wouldn't hurt either. You wouldn't have to wait.
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:03 PM   #5
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I have seen/felt this as well. I don't have a tach so I cant really tell if it in 2nd or 3rd gear when it does it...

While searching for info I found this awesome PDF on yarii.com. Specs for the engine and systems.
Attached Files
File Type: zip WM1nzfe.zip (721.4 KB, 355 views)

Last edited by nsmitchell; 08-30-2006 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:30 PM   #6
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Same thing has happened to me. When I went to test drive my Yaris the guy at the dealership said the cold light stayed on until it was at "operating temperature". My friends XB also did the same thing. He would wait until the light went off to drive his.
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Old 08-30-2006, 03:01 PM   #7
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actually the owners manual states its better for the vehicle to reach operating temperature while driving(gently). At a standstill its bad for the engine.
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Old 08-30-2006, 03:32 PM   #8
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just a thought- the engine and catalytic converter needs warming up- staying in the lower gears (but at the same time not letting the revs go high) lets that happen as quickly as possible.
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Old 08-30-2006, 04:40 PM   #9
07WYarisRS
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Don't worrry about it !

It's not a problem it designed this way...
just like most cars with locking tourque convertors or over drive they don't upshift until properly warmed up.
My Laser and my S-10 took severl miles of driving before it shifted and the TCL worked normally.
In the winter it is held back even more

My advice is let the car warm up 30 seconds to a minute and then drive it easy until the "cool" light goes out then you are good to go.
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Old 08-30-2006, 05:47 PM   #10
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Actually this is "normal." For auto trannys as far as Toyota's go. It did the same thing with my 87 Van (previous car) and it does it with my 03 ECHO, don't notice it too much in my moms 2000 Camry but I'm sure it does it.

Its for emissions, when the engine is cold it pollutes the most (think of bad morning breath ), so to warm it up fast it won't upshift into overdrive (4th gear)-obviously an engine pollutes no matter what its just more when its cold. That's from what I read and yes when the blue light goes off it will upshift into the highest or higher gear. Although this is weather effected so in colder weather it will take a little longer to warm up which is a give in. For me its annoying at times but I've learned to deal with it, there are bigger fish to fry...or bake or microwave, whatever you like!
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Old 08-30-2006, 06:48 PM   #11
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Thanks to all for the feedback. I feel better knowing it's normal, though I'm not sure it's that great for the engine. I like to keep revs low when the engine's cold.

And I have been driving that block easily - it's not that it's shifting late because I have my foot in it. I've taken it extra easy accelerating there because it will generally upshift sooner if you're not accelerating hard.

Oh well - guess I won't worry about it.

As for letting engine warm up in garage, I've always heard that's worse for the engine than driving it cold (as long as we're not talking sub-zero temps).

So, do you guys also find the revs shoot up to 1500-1700 or so when you first start it cold?

Paul
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Old 08-30-2006, 06:54 PM   #12
07WYarisRS
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it's better for the car to hold the shift and run at higher rpm with little load then run hard under heavy load.

It does not hurt the car to warm up for 30 seconds before driving off.
it gives the cylinders a chance to warm up and expand a bit reducing the affects of cold seizing/4 point scuffing from revving or running a cold engine under load.
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Old 08-30-2006, 08:23 PM   #13
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I was taught by my dad years ago to always have your engine warm up idleing for around 5 minutes before you take off. As a couple of guys have mentioned. Engines are built to run heated up not cold. My one truck has 160,000 miles on it and the engine on it is like brand new my mechanic has said. Plus I only use mobil one oil.

But always warm your engine up for a couple minutes before you put any torque on the engine. Works for me anyway. I know in this rush rush world everyone has to hurry. So good luck.
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Old 08-30-2006, 08:28 PM   #14
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This car does not need to "idle" to warm up, for any amount of time.. Toyota suggests driving slower to gradually get the engine up to operating temp., before driving high speeds.

Also, no amount of idling will warm up your transmission fluid (automatic), it needs to go thru the gears, to get the oil circulating/warming up.. so once again, driving a little slower/cautious the first few minutes is better then sitting in the garage warming up... plus your just wasting gas.

All info above can be found in the Yaris shop manual.
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Old 08-30-2006, 08:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris07LB
This car does not need to "idle" to warm up, for any amount of time.. Toyota suggests driving slower to gradually get the engine up to operating temp., before driving high speeds.

Also, no amount of idling will warm up your transmission fluid (automatic), it needs to go thru the gears, to get the oil circulating/warming up.. so once again, driving a little slower/cautious the first few minutes is better then sitting in the garage warming up... plus your just wasting gas.

All info above can be found in the Yaris shop manual.
Thanks for that info. about the transmission. I'll still idle my car for a few minutes till the engines warmed up though before I drive it. I kind of want it for the next 200,000 miles.

Last edited by foober; 08-31-2006 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 08-30-2006, 11:41 PM   #16
07WYarisRS
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Most fuel injected engines are designed to run with very little to no warm up but how you drive or operate the engine for the first 5 minutes will greatly affect how well and how long the engine lives.
Aluminum pistons and steel cylinder expand at much different rates. An aluminum piston will exspand faster and that can cause serious issues with clearance and causes 4 point scuffing and cold seizures in the worst cases.
ALL the fuel injection system does is dump in an extra rich mixture to help the engine warm up faster regardless if you are driving or not. This extra rich mixture is less harmfull to the cars emmisions system if you are operating under load (when more fuel is being used and not waisted) then just idling.

BUT that being said the person that lets his engine idle for 30 seconds a minute or so is not going to shorten the life of the engine or any components by letting it warm up for a bit.

Operating any engine outside of normal operating temps will shorten the life of the engine, the harder you drive it outside of normal operating temps the faster it will wear it out.
the "COOL" indicator in the gauge cluster is a great indicator of when the engine is warmed up and can be driven normally.
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Old 08-31-2006, 06:50 AM   #17
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Thanks guy for all the info... i have the same "problem" (well can't call that a problem since its normal) and I think i'm gonna let the engine runs 30 sec - 1 min before starting now....
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07WYarisRS
Most fuel injected engines are designed to run with very little to no warm up but how you drive or operate the engine for the first 5 minutes will greatly affect how well and how long the engine lives.
Aluminum pistons and steel cylinder expand at much different rates. An aluminum piston will exspand faster and that can cause serious issues with clearance and causes 4 point scuffing and cold seizures in the worst cases.
ALL the fuel injection system does is dump in an extra rich mixture to help the engine warm up faster regardless if you are driving or not. This extra rich mixture is less harmfull to the cars emmisions system if you are operating under load (when more fuel is being used and not waisted) then just idling.

BUT that being said the person that lets his engine idle for 30 seconds a minute or so is not going to shorten the life of the engine or any components by letting it warm up for a bit.

Operating any engine outside of normal operating temps will shorten the life of the engine, the harder you drive it outside of normal operating temps the faster it will wear it out.
the "COOL" indicator in the gauge cluster is a great indicator of when the engine is warmed up and can be driven normally.
Plugged in the block heater for the first time last night (low of -2C, 29F).

I have been letting the engine run for about a minute in the driveway before pulling out, then drive slow (~30Km/hr) until the "COOL" indicator goes off. The last few mornings it has taken about 5 minutes. This morning it took less than 2 minutes for the indicator to go off - awsome!

If it's true that starting and running at cold temperatures is hard on the engine, then getting up to "ideal" temp quicker should extend engine life. The block heater seems to have helped get the engine up to temperature quicker.

Soooooo ... the Cdn$175 cost of the block heater, plus a bit of cost on electricity, appears to be a cheap form of engine insurance for cold climate drivers

The only problem is REMEMBERING to plug it in at night and UNPLUGGING it in the morning.
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