New buyer questions...winter... - Toyota Yaris Forums

DaveG · 12-08-2009, 04:00 PM

Hi,
I'm new to these forums as I'm new to the yaris, so "Hi" to everybody. After browsing, I think this is the right place to get all of my pressing questions answered.
Anyway, I'm a university student in pennsylvania studying physics, and in need of some reliable transportation. I've got a 96 subaru legacy that is nickel and dime-ing me to death, and I've been looking at the yaris. I'm all for super fuel economy, cheap small cars with strange styling, toyota reliability, and the room inside the 3 door seems adequate(musician). The dealer has given me a deal at $13,300 for a 5-speed with crank windows, but with a stereo and 15" wheels and such. Does that seem reasonable. I can afford it, but obviously don't want to pay more than I have to. I'm 6'2", and I've got just enough headroom and leg-room. The seats seem to be a little uncomfortable in the lower back, and the rear view mirror is a little low in my field of vision, but I'm thinking that I can learn to live with that sort of thing. Is that reasonable?

What I'm really curious about is two things. First of all, on my test drive today, I almost got clipped twice, first on the highway where an 18-wheeler just started moving over into my lane, and forced me onto the shoulder, and second when at an intersection somebody decided it would be cool to pass me on the left when I was turning left. So do these cars get pushed around on the roads because they're so little? The 2010's crash ratings are decent, but still, its a small car, and any crash in any car can kill you. I'm a little wary about such a small car on the ever increasingly crazy roads.

Second question is the winter driving. You might not think it, but in NE pennsylvania, the winters are brutal. I have a commute every day, and often there is no choice but to drive in it. My subaru is a 5 speed with abs and 4 wheel drive, and its basically like a tank in the winter. Besides the copious amounts of cargo space, the winter driving is the only thing I don't dislike about it, because its awesome. I've had pretty aggressive tread all-season tires on it, and have never even slipped once. I'm a little worried that this car is going to be terrible in the snow compared to the subaru, and again I really don't want to crash or be stuck, or anything like that. So, how are these cars in the bad weather as they come from the dealer, or with slight modifications like snow tires?
Thanks, and I look forward to your help!
Dave

YAR1S · 12-08-2009, 05:01 PM

In response to your questions.....

what year yaris is that quote for?

a rear view mirror can be changed if need be, any with any new car, you wont be used to it's rear view.

If you get a yaris I highly suggest getting one with fold down seats and even th 60/40 split seats, this makes the yaris verrrrrry versatile and I have hauled many large things and large quantities of material in my yaris because of the fold down seats! :)

I havnt got any complaints from back seat passengers on short trips. however long trips could get a little uncomfortable because the seats are quite stiff....although height and leg room wasnt an issue with my passengers.... some people get annoyed with the fold down passenger seats(especially grumpy old parents, hah).

you buy a small car with the understanding that its not going to survive a crash quite the same way as a suv would.... however my experience with a front on collision with another car at approx. 35mph, the resulting damage wasnt tooooo bad.

I find that because the car is so small sometimes it gets caught in other driver's blind spots, for this you just have to be a cautious driver and always keep your eye on other drivers.... as you should with any other car you drive ;)

I dont find that as a smaller car you are pushed around by other cars, actually you can be quite pushy with other cars because your car is so small and able to manuever more easily and quite zippy for example.

I feel as anyone would in a small car, kind of unsafe but yet kind of at an advantage due to its quite response and ability to get out of situations. You cant prevent crashes and what happens..... happens.... drive a tank if you dont want to get harmed in a crash...lol.

As far as winter driving, these are pretty resonable cars... they are FWD which is good of course.... It snowed about 6 inches here once and I was able to make it out of my road.... which good driving habits, im sure this car would be ok in snow.... its not a rugged 4x4 but its better than most cars like RWD and heavy cars......

hope this info helps you in your decision....

the yaris is very versatile and a joy to drive!
but remember, no car is perfect.

Altitude · 12-08-2009, 05:08 PM

There have been quite a few members that got into accidents with their Yaris and all of them have walked away unscathed, so it seems like a fairly safe car. I don't notice the people around me treating the car any differently than others so maybe your two near misses were just bad luck. The Yaris is actually quite a bit larger than most 'small cars' so I don't think people have a hard time seeing it.

Reports are that with good snow tires the Yaris does just fine in winter. I can't vouch for that because I only drive it when it's not snowing and the roads are clear. I took it to the store once last winter and slid down my street, but I have summer performance tires on there so I don't think that's an indication of how well it does in the snow if one has proper tires.

nemelek · 12-08-2009, 05:10 PM

Consider buying a used Yaris. The Yaris is ok for winter driving, however, it is no subaru. Don't expect the same winter driving experience.

DaveG · 12-08-2009, 05:12 PM

thanks! the quote is for a 2010. I actually misspoke a bit. $13,800. With fees and tag and such, its $14,800.
One thing that stuck me today driving it was the crisp handling, and so I can see what you're saying about avoiding crashes rather than surviving them. Seems like a good trade-off to me, since I've used that strategy more than a few times in the past.
When i asked about seat comfort, I actually meant the drivers seat. It seemed like it protruded into my lower back a bit, but didn't support it. Of course, it could just be adjusting to a new car, since of course the seats on my 16 year old car are beat down quite a bit.
The 60/40 seats seem great, too. At first I didn't think so, but then I realized that you can slide them forward too and they go right to the floor. Taking the false floor off of the spare tire seems to give the car a huge amount of room in the back...certainly enough for me...

mryaris · 12-08-2009, 08:02 PM

I think the 2010's handle a lot better than the earlier models....probably due to the stability control & electronic brake distribution. I had an '09 hatchback that I rolled back in October and it didn't feel as crisp as the '10 hatchback I bought tob replace it.

Anyway, it is very cold and snowy here in Jackson Hole, Wyoming and all I have done to my Yaris is install a set of snow tires. It slips a bit on the ice, but it never gets stuck. I can zip around on the packed powder roads without it feeling like it's on the verge of losing control.....it is very predicable. I would highly recommend you get a good set of snow tires......well worth the $$. That said, it won't do as well as an AWD Subaru, so keep that in mind.

Having rolled a Yaris I can tell you they hold up very well.....they are tough little cars. If I hadn't bent up both drivers side wheels I could have driven it home. As for the price you have been quoted......I think $13,800 is a tad high for a 3-door without the power package. I paid $14,087 for my Carmine Red 3-door with power package, cold weather package & cruise control and I feel I could have gotten it for less if I tried a bit harder. Does that price include the $750 cash back from Toyota?? If not, then it would be right at $13K even which wouldn't be too bad. If it's $13,800 including the rebate then it is too high....keep negotiating.

Here's a picture of my wrecked '09:

YAR1S · 12-08-2009, 09:42 PM

I find the drivers seat to be acceptable.... you just have to get used to its straight back design.... I used to drive around in a grand marquis before so the seats were like leaned back recliners..... you just get used to a new car's seats....

yaris-me · 12-09-2009, 02:55 AM

Buy it.

DevilGirl · 12-09-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveG

Anyway, I'm a university student in pennsylvania studying physics, and in need of some reliable transportation.

Where at in the NE? I'm in the Lehigh Valley.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveG

I'm all for super fuel economy, cheap small cars with strange styling, toyota reliability, and the room inside the 3 door seems adequate(musician).

Quote:

Originally Posted by YAR1S

If you get a yaris I highly suggest getting one with fold down seats and even th 60/40 split seats, this makes the yaris verrrrrry versatile and I have hauled many large things and large quantities of material in my yaris because of the fold down seats! :)

I bought my 09 right before moving. It worked well for moving just about anything I had (except the larger furniture, for obvious reasons). The 60/40 split seats are great since they actually fold completely flat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveG

What I'm really curious about is two things. First of all, on my test drive today, I almost got clipped twice, first on the highway where an 18-wheeler just started moving over into my lane, and forced me onto the shoulder, and second when at an intersection somebody decided it would be cool to pass me on the left when I was turning left. So do these cars get pushed around on the roads because they're so little? The 2010's crash ratings are decent, but still, its a small car, and any crash in any car can kill you. I'm a little wary about such a small car on the ever increasingly crazy roads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YAR1S

I find that because the car is so small sometimes it gets caught in other driver's blind spots, for this you just have to be a cautious driver and always keep your eye on other drivers.... as you should with any other car you drive ;)

I dont find that as a smaller car you are pushed around by other cars, actually you can be quite pushy with other cars because your car is so small and able to manuever more easily and quite zippy for example.

you buy a small car with the understanding that its not going to survive a crash quite the same way as a suv would.... however my experience with a front on collision with another car at approx. 35mph, the resulting damage wasnt tooooo bad.

I feel as anyone would in a small car, kind of unsafe but yet kind of at an advantage due to its quite response and ability to get out of situations. You cant prevent crashes and what happens..... happens.... drive a tank if you dont want to get harmed in a crash...lol.

While I havn't had any (*knock on wood*) damages done to my car (well, other than that dang curb catchin the under side of my bumper), I certainly can understand about how a person would be concerned about it. As already stated, others have had crashes in theirs and walked away.

Best bet is to watch everything around you, be aware of situtations that may arise. Same thing I tell my boyfriend all the time when his driving starts getting out of hand, you can control your own actions, but you can't control the actions of others. Defensive driving.

I have had a few close calls while driving mine. But that was mainly due to people just being stupid (like not backing off at a merge point when you are clearly in front of them, and instead getting closer to your car when you blare the tiny horn at them, and then force you to slam your brakes to get behind them so as to avoid ended up into a concrete meridian, since you couldn't speed up due to a car in front of you).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveG

Second question is the winter driving. You might not think it, but in NE pennsylvania, the winters are brutal. I have a commute every day, and often there is no choice but to drive in it. My subaru is a 5 speed with abs and 4 wheel drive, and its basically like a tank in the winter. Besides the copious amounts of cargo space, the winter driving is the only thing I don't dislike about it, because its awesome. I've had pretty aggressive tread all-season tires on it, and have never even slipped once. I'm a little worried that this car is going to be terrible in the snow compared to the subaru, and again I really don't want to crash or be stuck, or anything like that. So, how are these cars in the bad weather as they come from the dealer, or with slight modifications like snow tires?

Quote:

Originally Posted by YAR1S

As far as winter driving, these are pretty resonable cars... they are FWD which is good of course.... It snowed about 6 inches here once and I was able to make it out of my road.... which good driving habits, im sure this car would be ok in snow.... its not a rugged 4x4 but its better than most cars like RWD and heavy cars......

I just got my baby some winter boots last night (Continental Extreme Winter Contact, Jack Williams Tire, $352 for 4 before tax/road hazard protection). I'm really glad that I did. Woke up this morning to 3" of snow on the car before it had changed to rain. Roads near me were hardly plowed if touched at all. She handled fine. Then again, I took it a little easier since the car is still new to me, and I wasn't sure what she would do. Ran it in 2nd for awhile, then 3rd, before finally getting it up to put it in 4th. (5sp tranny) She even plowed through snow that was probably about 6-10" deep due to the stinkin plow trucks that had come through and made it worse.

Happy Yaris-ing!!

DaveG · 12-09-2009, 12:01 PM

devilgirl, i'm up near scranton in the poconos. I had the same snow to drive through this morning. I'm enjoy snow, but when it turns to rain, like today, its just gross!
Anyway, I'm thinking I would do the snow tires/steel rims thing, because I can handle a FWD car in the snow pretty well. My parents have a matrix and a carolla, and I'm thinking snow performance will be similar? If so, thats fine with me.
I'm fine with getting used to new cars too. Obviously they're all different, but I'm pretty adaptable. I'm just worried about fitting in the thing at 6'2".

Is there anybody else out there who's tall and drives one of these comfortably? Feedback would be great. This is my last big hurdle before buying it.

p.s., is $13,800 reasonable? Its got the heavy duty starter and heater and whatever, cd player, cargo net and floor mats, 60/40 seats and 15" wheels. I think thats the convenience package? Not the power package.
Thanks!

*tomato* · 12-09-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveG

p.s., is $13,800 reasonable? Its got the heavy duty starter and heater and whatever, cd player, cargo net and floor mats, 60/40 seats and 15" wheels. I think thats the convenience package? Not the power package.
Thanks!

I think you're right, it is the convenience package and yeah, it looks reasonable.

To answer your previous question, I drove a Subaru (AWD) and the Yaris isn't gonna feel the same in the snow but some of the guys up in Canada and in the colder states seem pretty happy with it (with the proper winter tires, though). Wait a couple of days and they might see your thread.

I'm not worried about the Yaris getting in a crash. I used to drive a smaller /lighter car before. The Yaris LB is not that small, plus you sit pretty high up.

why? · 12-09-2009, 06:39 PM

i'm 6'2" and have driven my Yaris fine for a few years. The only thing I would wish for is a telescoping steering wheel, but it isn't really necessary. Longer drives can get a little uncomfortable, but my daily commute is about 45 minutes both ways, and for that length of time the Yaris is perfect.

advocate · 12-09-2009, 10:08 PM

6'2" as well. The stock seats never posed a comfort problem. If you're tall then after a while of owning it you'll realize that you're only staring out the upper most section of the windshield and that if you were 2 feet shorter you would have an AMAZING view of the road.

I think that's more of a tall-people-in-small-cars problem than a specific Yaris problem though. As for the seats? They could certainly be more comfortable but I've made multiple road trips in the car already and didn't come out with a back problem. I think you just need to adjust the seat more to find a very specific position you like.

For example when I get in my car I can automatically tell if: 1) the steering wheel has been adjusted 2) the seats are too far forward / backward 3) the seat is reclined too far

If you decide to buy it, when you get it home, take 20 minutes and adjust all the mirrors and the seat / steering wheel and you'll find that the car offers a great field of vision. This + small car handling / mobility offsets any safety issues from owning a small car.

DaveG · 12-09-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by advocate

6'2" as well. The stock seats never posed a comfort problem. If you're tall then after a while of owning it you'll realize that you're only staring out the upper most section of the windshield and that if you were 2 feet shorter you would have an AMAZING view of the road.

I think that's more of a tall-people-in-small-cars problem than a specific Yaris problem though. As for the seats? They could certainly be more comfortable but I've made multiple road trips in the car already and didn't come out with a back problem. I think you just need to adjust the seat more to find a very specific position you like.

For example when I get in my car I can automatically tell if: 1) the steering wheel has been adjusted 2) the seats are too far forward / backward 3) the seat is reclined too far

If you decide to buy it, when you get it home, take 20 minutes and adjust all the mirrors and the seat / steering wheel and you'll find that the car offers a great field of vision. This + small car handling / mobility offsets any safety issues from owning a small car.

Well the top of the windshield thing is exactly what I noticed, and also because of this the rear view mirror was sort of in the way. I think you're exactly right, though, and its a small car problem, not a yaris problem. Being a fan of small cars, I suppose I must adjust. No SUV for me!

Hershey · 12-10-2009, 12:03 AM

the V.S.C. and T.C. will give you better handling in poor driving conditions . Had a '06 XB with these safety features and did very in ice and snow with the stock GOODYEAR tires . Still suggest studded snows ( all 4 wheels ) for the extra security . Even V.S.C. and A.B.S won't help you stop faster or corner on ice . CONSUMER REPORTS did a test of stops on ice with studded COOPER WEATERMASTER ST-2's and stopped 20 feet shorter than non studded snows . GOOD LUCK

Hershey · 12-10-2009, 12:13 AM

forgot , I put a 40 lb. bag of salt in whatever YARIS ( over rear wheels in trunk or hatch ) is being used if snow/ice is predicted for next days travel . Then remove when forecast looks better .

wooverstone8 · 12-10-2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveG

p.s., is $13,800 reasonable? Its got the heavy duty starter and heater and whatever, cd player, cargo net and floor mats, 60/40 seats and 15" wheels. I think thats the convenience package? Not the power package.
Thanks!

That's seems a little high IMO. My 09 Yaris 3-door w/5-speed manual cost $13,250 OTD. It had everything that you listed PLUS the power package (power windows & locks). It didn't come with Trac or VSC, but when Toyota added those two options it only brought the price of the Yaris up about $200.

Phaeton · 12-10-2009, 10:35 PM

If you don't have back problems to start the Yaris will be fine for a 6'2' person.
I have back problems and commute 60 miles each way. All I can say is OUCH!

12-08-2009, 04:00 PM	#1
DaveG Drives: 2010 Yaris LB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: PA, USA Posts: 24	New buyer questions...winter... Hi, I'm new to these forums as I'm new to the yaris, so "Hi" to everybody. After browsing, I think this is the right place to get all of my pressing questions answered. Anyway, I'm a university student in pennsylvania studying physics, and in need of some reliable transportation. I've got a 96 subaru legacy that is nickel and dime-ing me to death, and I've been looking at the yaris. I'm all for super fuel economy, cheap small cars with strange styling, toyota reliability, and the room inside the 3 door seems adequate(musician). The dealer has given me a deal at $13,300 for a 5-speed with crank windows, but with a stereo and 15" wheels and such. Does that seem reasonable. I can afford it, but obviously don't want to pay more than I have to. I'm 6'2", and I've got just enough headroom and leg-room. The seats seem to be a little uncomfortable in the lower back, and the rear view mirror is a little low in my field of vision, but I'm thinking that I can learn to live with that sort of thing. Is that reasonable? What I'm really curious about is two things. First of all, on my test drive today, I almost got clipped twice, first on the highway where an 18-wheeler just started moving over into my lane, and forced me onto the shoulder, and second when at an intersection somebody decided it would be cool to pass me on the left when I was turning left. So do these cars get pushed around on the roads because they're so little? The 2010's crash ratings are decent, but still, its a small car, and any crash in any car can kill you. I'm a little wary about such a small car on the ever increasingly crazy roads. Second question is the winter driving. You might not think it, but in NE pennsylvania, the winters are brutal. I have a commute every day, and often there is no choice but to drive in it. My subaru is a 5 speed with abs and 4 wheel drive, and its basically like a tank in the winter. Besides the copious amounts of cargo space, the winter driving is the only thing I don't dislike about it, because its awesome. I've had pretty aggressive tread all-season tires on it, and have never even slipped once. I'm a little worried that this car is going to be terrible in the snow compared to the subaru, and again I really don't want to crash or be stuck, or anything like that. So, how are these cars in the bad weather as they come from the dealer, or with slight modifications like snow tires? Thanks, and I look forward to your help! Dave

12-08-2009, 05:10 PM	#4
nemelek DWEED Drives: 3DR 2008 Metorite Metalic Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,161	Consider buying a used Yaris. The Yaris is ok for winter driving, however, it is no subaru. Don't expect the same winter driving experience. __________________ Making a decision without following it with an action is still a fantasy.

12-08-2009, 08:02 PM	#6
mryaris Drives: 2010 Carmine Red hatchback Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorful Colorado Posts: 208	I think the 2010's handle a lot better than the earlier models....probably due to the stability control & electronic brake distribution. I had an '09 hatchback that I rolled back in October and it didn't feel as crisp as the '10 hatchback I bought tob replace it. Anyway, it is very cold and snowy here in Jackson Hole, Wyoming and all I have done to my Yaris is install a set of snow tires. It slips a bit on the ice, but it never gets stuck. I can zip around on the packed powder roads without it feeling like it's on the verge of losing control.....it is very predicable. I would highly recommend you get a good set of snow tires......well worth the $$. That said, it won't do as well as an AWD Subaru, so keep that in mind. Having rolled a Yaris I can tell you they hold up very well.....they are tough little cars. If I hadn't bent up both drivers side wheels I could have driven it home. As for the price you have been quoted......I think $13,800 is a tad high for a 3-door without the power package. I paid $14,087 for my Carmine Red 3-door with power package, cold weather package & cruise control and I feel I could have gotten it for less if I tried a bit harder. Does that price include the $750 cash back from Toyota?? If not, then it would be right at $13K even which wouldn't be too bad. If it's $13,800 including the rebate then it is too high....keep negotiating. Here's a picture of my wrecked '09: __________________

12-09-2009, 06:39 PM	#12
why? Only Happy When it Rains View User's Garage Drives: Yaris LB Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: harnett county NC Posts: 4,097	i'm 6'2" and have driven my Yaris fine for a few years. The only thing I would wish for is a telescoping steering wheel, but it isn't really necessary. Longer drives can get a little uncomfortable, but my daily commute is about 45 minutes both ways, and for that length of time the Yaris is perfect. __________________ Colin Chapman disciple

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12-08-2009, 05:08 PM	#3
Altitude Drives: '08 LB MT Bayou Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,671	There have been quite a few members that got into accidents with their Yaris and all of them have walked away unscathed, so it seems like a fairly safe car. I don't notice the people around me treating the car any differently than others so maybe your two near misses were just bad luck. The Yaris is actually quite a bit larger than most 'small cars' so I don't think people have a hard time seeing it. Reports are that with good snow tires the Yaris does just fine in winter. I can't vouch for that because I only drive it when it's not snowing and the roads are clear. I took it to the store once last winter and slid down my street, but I have summer performance tires on there so I don't think that's an indication of how well it does in the snow if one has proper tires.

12-08-2009, 05:12 PM	#5
DaveG Drives: 2010 Yaris LB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: PA, USA Posts: 24	thanks! the quote is for a 2010. I actually misspoke a bit. $13,800. With fees and tag and such, its $14,800. One thing that stuck me today driving it was the crisp handling, and so I can see what you're saying about avoiding crashes rather than surviving them. Seems like a good trade-off to me, since I've used that strategy more than a few times in the past. When i asked about seat comfort, I actually meant the drivers seat. It seemed like it protruded into my lower back a bit, but didn't support it. Of course, it could just be adjusting to a new car, since of course the seats on my 16 year old car are beat down quite a bit. The 60/40 seats seem great, too. At first I didn't think so, but then I realized that you can slide them forward too and they go right to the floor. Taking the false floor off of the spare tire seems to give the car a huge amount of room in the back...certainly enough for me...

12-09-2009, 02:55 AM	#8
yaris-me Learn to Relax Drives: 2007, Meteorite, LB Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 2,070	Buy it.

12-09-2009, 12:01 PM	#10
DaveG Drives: 2010 Yaris LB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: PA, USA Posts: 24	devilgirl, i'm up near scranton in the poconos. I had the same snow to drive through this morning. I'm enjoy snow, but when it turns to rain, like today, its just gross! Anyway, I'm thinking I would do the snow tires/steel rims thing, because I can handle a FWD car in the snow pretty well. My parents have a matrix and a carolla, and I'm thinking snow performance will be similar? If so, thats fine with me. I'm fine with getting used to new cars too. Obviously they're all different, but I'm pretty adaptable. I'm just worried about fitting in the thing at 6'2". Is there anybody else out there who's tall and drives one of these comfortably? Feedback would be great. This is my last big hurdle before buying it. p.s., is $13,800 reasonable? Its got the heavy duty starter and heater and whatever, cd player, cargo net and floor mats, 60/40 seats and 15" wheels. I think thats the convenience package? Not the power package. Thanks!

12-09-2009, 10:08 PM	#13
advocate Drives: car Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: location Posts: 1,033	6'2" as well. The stock seats never posed a comfort problem. If you're tall then after a while of owning it you'll realize that you're only staring out the upper most section of the windshield and that if you were 2 feet shorter you would have an AMAZING view of the road. I think that's more of a tall-people-in-small-cars problem than a specific Yaris problem though. As for the seats? They could certainly be more comfortable but I've made multiple road trips in the car already and didn't come out with a back problem. I think you just need to adjust the seat more to find a very specific position you like. For example when I get in my car I can automatically tell if: 1) the steering wheel has been adjusted 2) the seats are too far forward / backward 3) the seat is reclined too far If you decide to buy it, when you get it home, take 20 minutes and adjust all the mirrors and the seat / steering wheel and you'll find that the car offers a great field of vision. This + small car handling / mobility offsets any safety issues from owning a small car.

12-10-2009, 12:03 AM	#15
Hershey Drives: 08 Yaris sedan auto / Fit auto Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: northeast Posts: 2,897	the V.S.C. and T.C. will give you better handling in poor driving conditions . Had a '06 XB with these safety features and did very in ice and snow with the stock GOODYEAR tires . Still suggest studded snows ( all 4 wheels ) for the extra security . Even V.S.C. and A.B.S won't help you stop faster or corner on ice . CONSUMER REPORTS did a test of stops on ice with studded COOPER WEATERMASTER ST-2's and stopped 20 feet shorter than non studded snows . GOOD LUCK

12-10-2009, 12:13 AM	#16
Hershey Drives: 08 Yaris sedan auto / Fit auto Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: northeast Posts: 2,897	forgot , I put a 40 lb. bag of salt in whatever YARIS ( over rear wheels in trunk or hatch ) is being used if snow/ice is predicted for next days travel . Then remove when forecast looks better .

12-10-2009, 10:35 PM	#18
Phaeton View User's Garage Drives: Blazing Blue Liftback Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Port Angeles, Wa Posts: 385	If you don't have back problems to start the Yaris will be fine for a 6'2' person. I have back problems and commute 60 miles each way. All I can say is OUCH!