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Old 11-11-2008, 11:08 AM   #19
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Increase your tire pressure. Put the narrow original wheels back on if you have wider aftermarket wheels now..
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:45 AM   #20
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Loren who will inspect the cars and how? What is to say someone does not have an extra gas supply on board?
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:01 PM   #21
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I should have posted this in the first post, but didn't really think you guys would be so interested:
Event Info Thread (link to route information and more details at the top of the 2nd page)

Thanks for the tip on octane, Brian. Makes sense. If you're driving "normally" or "somewhat agressively", you could see a gain in economy from higher octane. Slugging the car around in a hypermiling fashion, probably won't make much of a difference and those who have tried it say they see a decrease. No problem... I'll fill up with 87!

I do have my route planned, and it does not include any interstate travel at all. But, it DOES include a lot of back roads with 35 mph speed limits. Now, I'll probably drive an average 40 mph on those roads... but I still need speed to get my average up to 45. There's also some city driving and stop lights that will also bring the average speed down. So, when I'm on a highway where the speed limit is 55 or 60, I'm going to need to GO 55 or 60 to bring the speed back up. With my car, I've noticed that I can maintain (with the AC on) 50 mpg at up to about 55 mph. It starts nose-diving at 60. So, I'll have to walk the fine line there. It's not a concern... just part of the challenge. :)

The penalty for blowing the 45 mph limit... well, there is one. But, really, I don't want to blow it. I want this to be a fairly realistic test. On top of that, as the event organizer, I don't want to be the one to bend my own rules... I want to do things right. Sure, I could get 60 mpg or more with an average speed of 38 mph... but that's not a very realistic test!

Sounds like my goal of 55 mostly lies with me and my mad hypermiling skills. This is good. As long as the car can do it, I should be able to pull it off.

I'll keep you posted. And any of you Florida guys, feel free to join us!
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:09 PM   #22
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Loren who will inspect the cars and how? What is to say someone does not have an extra gas supply on board?
We'll be putting a tamper seal on their gas cap. If anyone looks "iffy", we'll search the car for extra fuel tanks... but I don't think anyone is taking it that seriously. (in fact, most of my locals are crapping out on me, this is going to be a very low-turnout)

We've already specifically allowed any and all modifications other than secondary fuel tanks. Any brilliant idea you have to improve your fuel economy... from lightening to aero to engine swaps... go for it! Any such mods will prove their worth in this kind of test, and that's a good thing. If lightening works (it does), then we all learn yet again that lightness is better for economy. If improved aerodynamics works (it does), we'll prove that, too. If swapping a VW TDI engine into a Suburban works... well... I wouldn't stand in the way of such an experiement!

But, we do want to be able to somewhat accurately guage the amount of fuel used.
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Old 11-11-2008, 01:18 PM   #23
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GOOD LUCK Loren I hope you achieve your goal, I have no tips for you though.
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:25 PM   #24
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FWIW, the 1.4 liter D4D (diesel) Yaris recently set an mpg record during a 400 mile marathon in the UK. The winning number was about 84 mpg UK, which works out to be about 70.5 mpg US.

Diesels are roughly 30% more efficient than a gasoline vehicle. If you take the published extra-urban ratios of a Yaris 1.3 gasser vs. a 1.4 D4D... it's about 32%. Granted the 1.5L US engine is a bit thirstier than the 1.3. But let's just say that you could get the same mpg as the 1.3 (which is a tall order).

Compared to the world record of 70.5 mpg in a diesel, if you apply the efficiency ratios above, 53.2 mpgs would be the corresponding 1.3L result.

Your challenge is to exceed world record mpg, driving at 15 mph faster, in an engine that is 0.2L bigger than the UK engine I used for the above calculations. A tall order indeed, but at least you have half the distance.

Another difficulty will be the precision required to determine the amount of fuel consumed for the winner. You're only going 200 miles. Let's say you get 50 mpg (to make the math easy). That's 4 gallons. A small amount of error when refueling can have a huge impact on the result. To be consistent, you may need to have everyone use the same pump nozzle for the final fueling, as every pump switches off a little differently from vapor pressure. Due to carbon canisters in modern cars, i wouldn't advocate topping off.

Best of luck

Last edited by JnC; 11-11-2008 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 11-11-2008, 08:04 PM   #25
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Yeah, the 1.4 diesel Yaris is a brilliant car. I'd have bought one if it were available here.

Fill-ups will all be done at the same pump for consistency. We won't have any control over how much fuel people start with, though. We're not starting AT the gas station, but within 1/4 mile of one. So, people could slightly over-fill and gain a little bit. I'm not going to because I do want a true result.

In the end, I'm very confident that I'll see 55 mpg based on the way we're scoring the run... but that's not actual mpg. The run is scored based on the Google Maps distance, and my route will be about 15 miles shorter... that works in my favor. I'll be sure to calculate my actual mpg, too, though.

Things I have over the stock Yaris 1.3: lightweight crankshaft pulley and less weight due to no back seat and lighter wheels. I'll also be strategically adding tape, folding in the side mirror, stuff like that.

I'm not sure how much of a difference in economy there would be in a hypermiling situation between the 1.3 and 1.5, anyway. I mean, the 1.8 Corolla (07-08 version) is EPA rated 28/37 compared to the 1.5 Yaris (which is a lighter car) at 29/36. The larger displacement just makes acceleration easier... if you keep your foot out of it, it's not going to make a big difference in fuel economy.
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Old 11-11-2008, 08:29 PM   #26
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Gorgeous Spitfire btw.

I've only gotten serious about hypermiling once (too much work to do to the level I experimented with). No prep other than 40 psi in my tires in my VW TDI. It was an 80+ mile trip, catching a draft behind a semi and trying a throttle/gearing modulation theory I concocted... which nearly wore me and the clutch out. All while staying within +/- 5 mph of the speed limit on an interstate hwy (55 to 65 posted). I didn't verify fillup, and figure the trip computer is at least 5% optimistic.

Heh, I think the light tank helped a little. ;)
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:41 PM   #27
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The biggest mileage improvement I see is a very warmed up car. Not just water temp to 184 but water temp to 184 and another 10 to 15 minutes of driving beyond that.

Good luck.
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Old 11-11-2008, 10:52 PM   #28
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Even though you will be driving in Fl, which is flat as sin, I think you should use FAS (Forced Auto Stop...check it out at cleanmpg.com) to your extreme advantage if you want to crack those numbers.

Both Voodoo and I have cracked the 53mpg barrier in the auto, so hitting 55 shouldn't be a problem with a MT due to it's distinct advantage of being able to short-shift and FAS safely.

I drive a painfully hilly commute, but here are some tips I find have worked for getting the best MPG. Some may not work as well as I think since my car is an auto. The best Trip MPG I ever achieved on my regular commute was 60mpg, and I know that Wayne Gerdes himself was able to get 66mpg in an auto as well, so 55 is definitely doable.

-Hold TPS around 20-22, never exceeding this unless you need to accelerate after an FAS or before a hill. Even on a very slight incline, holding at 22 may cause you car to slowly lose speed, at around .5mph/sec, but this is where Pulse and Glide comes in. Note: this TPS is what the scangauge has as a default. If you change the default settings for Fuel Cut-Off, they may be different.

-If you are on a slight downhill with no wind, you could easily hold at 20-21 TPS and get amazing mileage (around 60-85 iMPG).

-When approaching and climbing hill, never exceed 26-27TPS. For some reason, I find that even on the steepest of hills, between 28-31 TPS actually does nothing at all, except dump more gas into the engine without a significant or noticable increase in power. If you are approaching a very long uphill, accelerate at this throttle position and hold it until you crest.

-Go into neutral on short downhills that are too small to use FAS.

-Pump up those tires! I have had them at sidewall max (44 psi) for a while now, and haven't noticed any adverse effects except maybe a slightly stiffer ride, which I actually like. I believe Brian has them up to 60psi, but you do what you feel safe with.

That's my 2c. Good luck on your challenge!
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:10 PM   #29
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I was about to dismiss FAS as something I didn't really need to do since I use DFCO so much. But, then I thought about it. I can coast a lot further in neutral than I can with the drag of the engine in gear. That adds up to free miles. DFCO is a heckuva a lot easier for daily driving... but for this trip, I can see using FAS when appropriate. And I agree, it should make a big difference, even here in the flatlands.

Good call, Yarswiss.
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:22 PM   #30
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I can coast a lot further in neutral than I can with the drag of the engine in gear. That adds up to free miles.
I've observed the same thing.
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:03 AM   #31
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catching a draft behind a semi
I wouldn't recommend drafting under any circumstance
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:49 AM   #32
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I wouldn't recommend drafting under any circumstance
I don't advocate it. It was a singleton. And probably not all that effective as I still kept a 1 sec cushion.
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:47 AM   #33
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Oh, drafting is very effective... and also very stupid. A friend of mine did it in my car... not 1 second back, but about 10-20 feet back. MPG went from 48ish at 70 to 53. BUT... we were drafting behind a friend towing our race car and he knew we were back there. I still wasn't comfortable with it, but it does work. I'd never do it. I like my space.
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:47 AM   #34
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The penalty for blowing the 45 mph limit... well, there is one. But, really, I don't want to blow it. I want this to be a fairly realistic test. On top of that, as the event organizer, I don't want to be the one to bend my own rules... I want to do things right. Sure, I could get 60 mpg or more with an average speed of 38 mph... but that's not a very realistic test!
I'm sorry, my post wasn't clear. I figured you didn't want to be late (most FE challenges have a max time allowed)

you can set up an Xguage to tell you the average speed of your trip. If the average speed drops below 45 you will know you are going to be late and need to give it some gas. this will be much easier, and probably more accurate than doing the math (how far you are and how long it has taken you) in your head.

and another thought, is your route construction free?
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Old 11-12-2008, 12:52 PM   #35
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I planned on using a GPS to monitor average speed and try to keep it around 48.

Construction... good question. Without pre-running the whole route the day before, it's hard to say. The segment that I did drive was construction-free.
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Old 11-12-2008, 01:30 PM   #36
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Florida state highway construction projects - http://www.dot.state.fl.us/publicinf...rprojects.shtm
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