Installed My Tweeters Today

[sqcomp]

Line arrays of SUPATWEETAS! Whoot!

How about a whole headliner of them? oooooooo purdy!

Hey DFA,

When you say less biased. Are you talking about having multiple center images or having a hard time locating a center image? If you feel the urge, take the tweeters out of the mounting and move them off axis to aiming toward the top of the instrument cluster. Listen for what happens to the image at that point.

...that is if you feel it needed...

Oh also, pull your seat back ALL the way. Take a listen to the stage. Anything different?

[DFA]

THIS



Is what I have in mind. As forward as the panel will let me.
I just tried a bunch of Bass Mekanik tracks on my setup and it sounds pretty damn good (for my ears anyway). All I need is to rake up some more cash and blow it on a sub and I'm good to go.

By 'biased' I meant being able to clearly locate the center image, but feeling somehow closer to one of the 2 edges (in this case, left edge of the stage) than the other. Dunno if that makes any sense, hate it when my english decides to be lacking when I want to try to get a point across, haha.

I'm pretty satisfied with how the tweeters sound on the door panels. Putting them on top of the dash, just behind the lateral A/C vents was the best possible soundstage I got, but I'm not going to go drilling holes into my dash, and surface mounted tweets have never looked good to me. I feel it's a good compromise. Soundstage was just a bit lopsided, but It's only noticeable doing test tracks and is nowhere near messed up enough to bother me.

And well, the reason why I'm having fun trying every crazy tweeter position I can come up with is because I haven't mounted them yet.
Since I've asked about 2 times now and haven't got an answer, I'm going to assume that I'll have no problems with the door panels being slightly curved and the tweeter 'lip' that goes onto the panel to flush-mount is not.

[Ranger SVO]

The slight curve on the panel was not a problem for me, it looks good and overall I really like the way it woke up the sound in the car. Big,Big, improvement.

[DFA]

All done!
Thank you sqcomp for giving me all the tools to allow me to make the best decision I possibly could, and not imposing your own criteria like a lot of car audio experts do a lot of the time. Thanks alot to everyone for all the input.

Overall, I really like how it plays. As I mentioned, soundstage sounds a tiny bit lopsided to one side, but it's nothing bad enough to drive me crazy. I'm really happy with my system. :)

[sqcomp]

Hey, ultimately it YOUR sound, not ours. I'm glad we all could help.

Oh, what you're hearing is what I was referring to about pathlength difference (PLD). It's a time alignment issue (to a point). By moving the tweeters up away from you, you even out (to a greater extent) that issue you have. I'm not saying do it, I'm just giving you the answer to the issue.

Out of curiosity, what tweeters are those in the picture? They look like Pioneer Premier or DLS tweeters. The display and computer I'm using here in Kuwait isn't the best...

In my case, we're looking at making a custom waveguide (just to be clear...NOT a horn load)for the L4 and L1 Pro SE tweeters IN the dash pad. One of my fellow team members did this with just the midrange (L4) and the result is SPECTACULAR. Good enough for him to be the best sounding car in the IASCA pro class in Canada this last year (Pro SQI Champion). He's also Started off with a 1st place showing at the SBN in the pro class a few weeks ago...





I am aiming to improve the design...

[derickveliz2]

Why in the component instruction's say "keep tweeters within 12 inches from the mid-base woofer"?

I can't wait until the 15th...

.

[sqcomp]

They're crossing over the tweeter at a low frequency range. There are issues if you have a low crossover point AND have a high mounted tweeter. You'll have male vocals become more centered and female vocals edge out closer to the tweeters. There are several reason for this, one is head shadowing, and the time delay difference between the mid and the tweeter.

You can usually tell with a separated set and a low crossover where the crossover point is by hearing the subtle cues on the soundstage. If you separate your speakers like that with a low crossover point, you will tend to have a less defined center image across the spectrum. Time alignment CAN help solidify that image issue BUT, it is better to re aim and re place your speakers if you're using a passive with a low crossover point.

In my case, I won't have that issue due to the nature of the speaker locations AND the fact that I'm completely active.

[derickveliz2]

Where can we learn more about this active/passive and crossover points?

[Mobius1]

books. lol

[DFA]

Tweeter model reads 'Pioneer DS-759A'
Came with this component kit: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSA1...106&tab=review

[derickveliz2]

Does this diagram helps me understand what active / passive crossover points are?

Thanks

.

[derickveliz2]

So if I don't use an Active Crossover I should install my tweeters within 12 inches from my mid-base speaker?

.

[sqcomp]

He he...

Ahh, USD Audio Waveguides. I have a pair in storage.

That diagram simply tells you that this person is using passives off one of the RF amplifiers. Why? I don't know. He already has an active 3 way crossover. I'd really have to get to this system in particular to see what and why he's doing what he's doing.

Now, I'm NOT saying if you're passively crossing your system you NEED to keep the tweeter and the mid close...that being said, this TOTALLY depends on the crossover point you're at with the passive. If it's low (the crossover point), then you'll probably find that you'll want to keep them closer together (for the reasons I mentioned earlier). My money is on the manufacturer's crossover point being between 2 KHz and 3.5 KHz.

Where can you learn about crossover points? Someone answered books, this is partially correct. What needs to happen as well is that if you want to learn, find someone with a completely active setup that know WTF is going on (not someone who just paid an installr to do everything). Sit and listen and then compare. Critical listening is the MAIN avenue for experience in crossover points.

Notice that I've mentioned not onlyabout crossover points, but placement, acoustic theory, and specific equipment use. ALL of these come into play when trying to do even the most simple system. It's just that a lot of us don't realize, or don't care to realize what is going on enough to try and learn WHY certain things are the way they are.

In my case my mid range speakers play a HUGE range of sound. I'll be using them from around 200 someodd Hz all the way up to anywhere from 6.5 KHz to maybe even 10 KHz. Why? Because I can. It eliminates the nasty mid/tweet crossover point issues that I'm referring to. The other reason I'm doing this is that the source I'm using gives me the ability to run a 4 way crossover network from the deck. This eliminates the need for outboard active or passive crossovers.

...Yes I'm tooing my own horn...

Regardless, my logic is simple and solid.

I digress, you will find that with the ability to change and adjust your crossover points, you can dramatically change what is happening with the performance of your sound system.

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by derickveliz2

Where can we learn more about this active/passive and crossover points?

http://www.bcae1.com/

or Home theater forums. Car audio forums generally are 99% basshead who only know how to install decks, speakers, and amps.... where as home theater forums have a much higher percentage of people who design and build their own active crossovers, and sometimes even amplifiers.

[sqcomp]

You know what...that's a good one taln. I completely forgot about BCAE. Good idea for him!

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by talnlnky

http://www.bcae1.com/.

Thank you, Thank you!

D.