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Old 10-22-2014, 11:13 AM   #1
tmontague
 
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Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
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Getting Rid of the infamous Clutch "Shudder"

I decided to take a look at this last night seeing as I had some extra time. Ever since I got my Yaris 2 years ago I would notice when I started my car in the morning for the first 10-15 mins or so until the clutch warmed up it would make a terrible shuddering noise and it felt like the engine was shaking. This only happened when releasing the clutch from a stopped position. At first I thought it was because I was not giving it enough gas, but when I started paying more attention to it I realized that this was clearly not the case.

I stumbled across this old thread http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7929 and noticed that the issue may be the slave cylinder. I had already wanted to bleed my clutch and replace the fluid (not realizing it shared the same master cylinder as the brakes) so I figured I'd do this all at once.

The fluid itself was likely never changes but was in great condition. When bleeding the master cylinder not much air came out at all, maybe a few tiny bubbles at most. The fluid was clean. I did about 15 full clutch presses opening and closing the bleeder each time. Then I started on the salve cylinder as explained in the above link. I had a vinyl tube attached to the bleed nipple off of the salve cylinder running into a dry bottle. While leaning into the engine bay I would quickly and forcefully push in the slave piston/rod with my right hand and at the same time open the bleed nipple. I would then quickly close the nipple and then let go of the slave piston. I did this about 15 times and noticed that the fluid was darker than the rest of the system. About 10 or so really tiny bubbles came out.

I have only driven it 85km to school this cold morning but there was absolutely no shudder, even when I gave it less gas than I usually do. The clutch felt the exact same on start up as it used to 15 mins in to driving. The pedal seems to have a more linear resistance right down to the floor and a smoother operation.

Something to definitely try if you are having the clutch shudder problem. It doesn't sound like it's too good for the engine/clutch doing this year after year so it seems like a good idea to fix it. I found it hard to find any solution when googling the problem so figured I'd put a post on the forum about it. I also had noticed some clutch squeak when depressing the clutch in the past 4 months. Since I was right there I just added some lithium grease to the slave piston by pushing the boot back on it. I also applied the grease to the rectangular opening on the boot that covers the clutch fork. It's a random opening on the triangular boot but I guess what that is for since you cannot move the boot out of the way. No more squeak

Anyone know how to adjust the clutch pedal to go lower to the floor, I find the travel a bit excessive?
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Old 10-22-2014, 11:45 AM   #2
bronsin
 
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I dont think clutch trsavel adjustment is possible on a hydraulic clutch.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:46 AM   #3
Goldenyaris
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Thanks alot "tmontague"
I have been googling this issue for more than 5 years its been with my car since it got 20k miles on it.
My car is untouched at this point, only changed the engine oil and filter nothing else.
The engine shudders alot when pulling off in the first gear, often i have to jump to 2nd gear to avoid that shudder. it like the whole engine is shaking.
can you please tell me how have you bled that master cylinder?
As i am planning to flush the whole system and add new fluid.

Sorry for my bad English.
Again hats off to you Thanks alot
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:25 AM   #4
tmontague
 
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to bleed the master cylinder:

there is no separate reservoir for clutch, it is the same as the brake reservoir. Make sure it is full and have someone sit in drivers seat.
-have them push down clutch (3/4 of way)
-once it's pushed down open the bleed nipple/valve on the slave cylinder (one on front of engine block facing bumper)
-once fluid comes out, close nipple and let your buddy release pedal.
-Repeat until any air is out and color of fluid is clean.
*Keep an eye on reservior so as to make sure it doesn't get too low (fill as needed).

I'd recommend bleeding the brakes first to flush out all old fluid from system and then do clutch. I didn't want to take off the windshield wiper cowling on my Yaris to get a turkey baster in the reservoir, so I just had my buddy do a lot of pumpes on the first brake to get all old fluid out of system, it doesn't take too long.

To bleed slave cylinder:

you have to use your hand to force the clutch fork into the slave cylinder and at the same time open the bleed nipple and then close it fairly quickly before you let go of the clutch fork and let it go back into place.

The clutch fork (i hope I'm using the correct name) is the part that the cylinder from the slave pushes against to disengage the clutch. You are essentially using your own hand to push the cylinder back into the slave and at the same time allowing any air out of bleeder. Make sure you close nipple before you let the cylinder back out again.

This last step takes some force and work but it's relatively simple. Fixed my problem for the first month, it's back a bit now but the shudder is much easier to control and less violent. I attached a clear tube to bleed nipple and had fluid go into a botle to keep things from getting too mesy
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:22 PM   #5
duendeverde
 
Drives: Yaris 2010 Manual
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmontague View Post
I decided to take a look at this last night seeing as I had some extra time. Ever since I got my Yaris 2 years ago I would notice when I started my car in the morning for the first 10-15 mins or so until the clutch warmed up it would make a terrible shuddering noise and it felt like the engine was shaking. This only happened when releasing the clutch from a stopped position. At first I thought it was because I was not giving it enough gas, but when I started paying more attention to it I realized that this was clearly not the case.

I stumbled across this old thread http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7929 and noticed that the issue may be the slave cylinder. I had already wanted to bleed my clutch and replace the fluid (not realizing it shared the same master cylinder as the brakes) so I figured I'd do this all at once.

The fluid itself was likely never changes but was in great condition. When bleeding the master cylinder not much air came out at all, maybe a few tiny bubbles at most. The fluid was clean. I did about 15 full clutch presses opening and closing the bleeder each time. Then I started on the salve cylinder as explained in the above link. I had a vinyl tube attached to the bleed nipple off of the salve cylinder running into a dry bottle. While leaning into the engine bay I would quickly and forcefully push in the slave piston/rod with my right hand and at the same time open the bleed nipple. I would then quickly close the nipple and then let go of the slave piston. I did this about 15 times and noticed that the fluid was darker than the rest of the system. About 10 or so really tiny bubbles came out.

I have only driven it 85km to school this cold morning but there was absolutely no shudder, even when I gave it less gas than I usually do. The clutch felt the exact same on start up as it used to 15 mins in to driving. The pedal seems to have a more linear resistance right down to the floor and a smoother operation.

Something to definitely try if you are having the clutch shudder problem. It doesn't sound like it's too good for the engine/clutch doing this year after year so it seems like a good idea to fix it. I found it hard to find any solution when googling the problem so figured I'd put a post on the forum about it. I also had noticed some clutch squeak when depressing the clutch in the past 4 months. Since I was right there I just added some lithium grease to the slave piston by pushing the boot back on it. I also applied the grease to the rectangular opening on the boot that covers the clutch fork. It's a random opening on the triangular boot but I guess what that is for since you cannot move the boot out of the way. No more squeak

Anyone know how to adjust the clutch pedal to go lower to the floor, I find the travel a bit excessive?
I also experience the shudder every morning, I just start slowly releasing the clutch while applying little gas. Also changing gears from 2 to 3 seems to make it go away.... I thought it was moisture (condensation) or some leak getting into the clutch
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Old 12-16-2014, 12:23 AM   #6
CoryM
 
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I've never seen clutch shudder/chatter be anything but an issue with the friction surfaces (or broken parts). Basically what happens is one section of the clutch is gripping more, or sooner, than the rest. So, like a warped brake rotor, you get pulsation. Most common causes are: Warped or hot-spotted flywheel/pressure-plate, grease on clutch disc, or incorrect clutch material for the application. In the case of the Yaris with it's teeny engine (which requires more slippage to get going), and teeny 8" clutch, the warped/hot-spotted thing is pretty common.

You mention the clutch engagement seems high; as clutches wear out, the engagement point gets further and further up. It's possible that you are nearing time for clutch replacement.

Cheers.
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Old 12-16-2014, 01:11 AM   #7
Jcp123
 
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As badly as I want an M/T again, the hydraulic clutches kinda scare me...

In the case of the hot-spotted clutch, except for take-off, I don't use the clutch anyway.
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Old 12-16-2014, 03:03 AM   #8
CoryM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcp123 View Post
As badly as I want an M/T again, the hydraulic clutches kinda scare me...

In the case of the hot-spotted clutch, except for take-off, I don't use the clutch anyway.
Hydraulic clutches are no more scary than hydraulic brakes
There are a few that are seriously painful to bleed, but not very common anymore.

Cheers.
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Old 12-23-2014, 07:21 AM   #9
Goldenyaris
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Quote:
to bleed the master cylinder:

there is no separate reservoir for clutch, it is the same as the brake reservoir. Make sure it is full and have someone sit in drivers seat.
-have them push down clutch (3/4 of way)
-once it's pushed down open the bleed nipple/valve on the slave cylinder (one on front of engine block facing bumper)
-once fluid comes out, close nipple and let your buddy release pedal.
-Repeat until any air is out and color of fluid is clean.
*Keep an eye on reservior so as to make sure it doesn't get too low (fill as needed).

I'd recommend bleeding the brakes first to flush out all old fluid from system and then do clutch. I didn't want to take off the windshield wiper cowling on my Yaris to get a turkey baster in the reservoir, so I just had my buddy do a lot of pumpes on the first brake to get all old fluid out of system, it doesn't take too long.

To bleed slave cylinder:

you have to use your hand to force the clutch fork into the slave cylinder and at the same time open the bleed nipple and then close it fairly quickly before you let go of the clutch fork and let it go back into place.

The clutch fork (i hope I'm using the correct name) is the part that the cylinder from the slave pushes against to disengage the clutch. You are essentially using your own hand to push the cylinder back into the slave and at the same time allowing any air out of bleeder. Make sure you close nipple before you let the cylinder back out again.

This last step takes some force and work but it's relatively simple. Fixed my problem for the first month, it's back a bit now but the shudder is much easier to control and less violent. I attached a clear tube to bleed nipple and had fluid go into a botle to keep things from getting too mesy
I bled the clutch as you told me. Here is what i got.
Camera cannot capture the very fine dust particles suspended in the fluid.
The best part is the biting point came up as it was in brand new condition.
and the clutch pedals became really softer.
Thanks alot
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Old 07-23-2016, 01:25 PM   #10
dogsridewith
 
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Bleeding clutch fluid master slave cylinder reservoir shared brake

nice. Any reason not to use a Mity Vac to bleed the clutch? (I do realize that in brake bleeding discussions that vacuum bleeding can pull in air at weak seals.)
I've got a low pedal at engagement and some shudder, so great to find some advice and hear some success stories here.
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Old 11-11-2020, 04:56 PM   #11
Mister
 
Drives: Yaris T1
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: South Africa
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necro post time!
Yes, my manual gearbox 2007 yaris had a clutch shudder that was bad.
Between the warm weather arriving (southern hemisphere) and bleeding the clutch valve with 500 ml of brake fluid and changing the gearbox oil, it snuffed out the clutch shudder completely.

Even though I had trusted the stinkin' stealership to change brake fluid earlier in the year, it looked like horrible swamp fluid had come out of the clutch valve. The reservoir had golden yellow fluid but what came out of the clutch valve looked dark green swamp water with debris in it.

Stinkin' stealerships... smh

Ps: changing gearbox oil was the easiest fluid to change in this Yaris. Easier than engine oil and radiator fluid.
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Old 11-30-2020, 12:26 PM   #12
TiedBassDrummer
 
Drives: 08 Yaris 3dr
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Thanks for reviving the thread Mister, and thank you tmontague for the writeup. I got some air out of the clutch and it feels so much better!

Last edited by TiedBassDrummer; 11-30-2020 at 02:28 PM.
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