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Old 06-17-2022, 03:27 PM   #1
RMcG
 
Drives: 2008 Yaris Hatchback
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 208
Does waxing improve the appearance of peeling clearcoat & paint?

Some youtube videos advocate using wax + rubbing compound/cleaning compound as a way to improve the appearance of paint with peeling clear coat. Below are links to two examples of the these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqZ6VHmAhlI

LukatDetail.com has several videos, here is an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG96JwmqzyY

Lukat sells various products, including one called Lukat Fix It.

QUESTION(S):

Has anybody used this or similar method?

How well does it work?

How long do the effects last?

Do you suggest any particular products to practice this method?

I am primarily interested in something that looks fairly good from a distance and will last at least a few weeks.

Any other comments or suggestions will be welcomed.

Thank you,

R.

Last edited by RMcG; 06-17-2022 at 06:58 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 06-17-2022, 06:42 PM   #2
sh0rtlife
 
Drives: 2007 5dr canadian import
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it really depends on the finish and HOW its pealing/lifting, idealy youd do a light wetsand around the edges with something in the 800grit range to feather the edge, at that point YES you can rub n buff and make it neerly invisable, but..its still a bandaid to the fact you need to re-shoot the clear

as far as how long a solid rub n buff will last is entirely dependent on where you live..here in the north wet it could easily last a few years, but if your say..in nevada it may last a few weeks to a few months

again its enterly dependent on a few factors, how rough the clear is, how much effort you put into it prior to rub n buff, the products you use(id only use meguires), and the environment you live in

for my wifes yaris, i can make the small spot on the hood vanish for a year or more, but the roof is basicly untouchable as its got more a sandblasted pothole effect going on..its tons of tiny spots from where her surf boards would drip onto it..which took its toll..."could" i save it with enough effort sure, but were talking basicly needing to wetsand a large section of the roof...at which point id much rather just re-shoot the clear up there and be done with it for another 20 years

toss up shots of what your working with and ill see what i can do to help you out..i can still get a finish out of my VERY flat n faded 67 barracuda, it just takes 2 days of work to bring the shine up and it has to be mantained every 6 months...so if your willing to WORK for a shine and the paint UNDER the exposed clear is good then you should be able to make it look good even fairly up close for a reasonable period
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Old 06-18-2022, 08:34 PM   #3
RMcG
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sh0rtlife View Post
toss up shots of what your working with and ill see what i can do to help you out..i can still get a finish out of my VERY flat n faded 67 barracuda, it just takes 2 days of work to bring the shine up and it has to be mantained every 6 months...so if your willing to WORK for a shine and the paint UNDER the exposed clear is good then you should be able to make it look good even fairly up close for a reasonable period
Thanks Sh0rtlife,
Attached are some pictures. The part of the car I want to work on the most is the roof. I would like to get it so the car does not look like junk from a distance of say 20-40 feet or more; for example for a person looking down on the car standing on their porch or steps. I live in the Pacific NW, but plan to travel back to Montana for work for a couple of weeks at a time. I would like to improve the car's appearance for the time being using the cleaning & waxing technique(s) described in the videos at the links in my first post.

As you can see, the rear, front and sides of the car do not look too bad, but the roof and adjacent areas look the worst. There are pictures at the end showing the car from a distance. From maybe 25-30 feet, you can still see that there is kind of a "strip" down the center of the roof.

Eventually I would like to do a more permanent solution using paint & clearcoat in spray cans. But I live in an apartment and would have to persuade a relative to use their garage.

Or perhaps I could kind of cobble together a temporary "tent" made from plastic sheeting supported by bamboo taped to the car. But I think this approach to the problem is suboptimal. I think that even on a day with calm winds and even with some kind of temporary "tent" I think wind would be a problem.

Any comments from you or others will be appreciated particularly with respect to the products to use. For example, is Lukat Fixit really necessary or is another product just as good or better?

Thanks,

R.

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Last edited by RMcG; 06-19-2022 at 12:01 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 06-19-2022, 02:48 AM   #4
sh0rtlife
 
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i can tell you right now that short of wetsanding your not going to get the effect your after, heck, youd likely be better off just doing a vynle wrap of the roof in black?

as far as a tent goes, ive done tent paint jobs best setup hands down is pvc pipes, duct tape, clear plastic, a pair of furnace filters and a box fan....i painted a shortbus this way among other projects

no amount of snake oil will deal with those "white patches" as thats clear coat thats no longer stuck to the body, and just hasnt lifted enough, now if you can get all those to lift off be it with a presurewasher or sanding is your call, me id blast it with a presurewasher and remove as much of it as i can and then re-evaluate what youve got

assuming you can get those gone id rub the majority of the roof down with 600-800grit then do a rub n buff and youll be golden
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Old 06-20-2022, 12:54 AM   #5
RMcG
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sh0rtlife View Post
i can tell you right now that short of wetsanding your not going to get the effect your after, heck, youd likely be better off just doing a vynle wrap of the roof in black?
Thanks sh0rtlife,

If I don't do a vinyl wrap right away, but wet sand and then "rub n buff" like you say below, could I do the vinyl wrap later? In other words, could I get the wax off with clay bar enough to make the vinyl adhere to the roof at a later date?

You suggest black, what about other colors?

Is there a clear vinyl wrap for the roof?

Quote:
as far as a tent goes, ive done tent paint jobs best setup hands down is pvc pipes, duct tape, clear plastic, a pair of furnace filters and a box fan....i painted a shortbus this way among other projects
How much does it cost to make such a pvc pipe tent?

Was it very time consuming to make it?

Did you use your tent inside a garage or outside?

I was looking online and people have used cheap wedding tents from Amazon as paint booths.

Quote:
no amount of snake oil will deal with those "white patches" as thats clear coat thats no longer stuck to the body, and just hasnt lifted enough, now if you can get all those to lift off be it with a presurewasher or sanding is your call, me id blast it with a presurewasher and remove as much of it as i can and then re-evaluate what youve got

assuming you can get those gone id rub the majority of the roof down with 600-800grit then do a rub n buff and youll be golden
So it sounds like you think wet sanding and rub n buff would work pretty well.

How long do you think such a rub n buff would last?

Can you suggest any specific products to do the rub n buff?

Any further comments or suggestions from you or anybody else will be welcomed.

Thanks,

R.

Last edited by RMcG; 06-20-2022 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 06-22-2022, 12:38 PM   #6
sh0rtlife
 
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a clear wrap will only "highlight" what you have it wont hide or mask it......only reason i recomend black is the fact that it will look reasonably good with the rest of the black accents on the car..mirrors trim etc...you could do hot pink if you wanted to..skys the limit on colors just dont expect to get a "color match"..and yes if your results turn for the worse on the paint you can still wrap it

on the tent, without going and pricing stuff up im not sure, i used 3/4 inch stuff i think, unless prices have gone silly........you should be able to tent the whole car for 50-100%, and yes i used mine outside on atleast 2 cars and a short bus it was actually a retirement home rig so it was HUGE and wouldnt fit in my shop, so long as you run a filter at both ends and a walmart box fan it works really well....wet the ground under the car before use!!!!!!...making it takes pretty much zero time and you do NOT need to glue an of the pipe work...im still re-useing the rig in various configureations to this day even as an "oversized" sand blasting cabinet

as far as a rub n buff goes, its all about how much of that air gapped "lift" you can get off..even if you have to take your fingernails to it to break it open and then hit it with a pressurewasher...thats going to be job#1 PERIOD you cant shoot, sand, buff etc without doing that first...and honestly id be hesitant to wrap it without doing that in the first place as well as it may cause "bubbles" in the wrap that you simply dont see right now as those are basicly ..well..zits that need to be popped....

assuming you get to a clean sharp edge on all of those blisters at that point your in a much better spot to advise...honestly even if the whole tops clear pealed off youd be in a better starting spot...so dont fear the clear pealing off you just need to not have "white patches" which are air/moisture/lift of the clear
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Old 06-22-2022, 08:37 PM   #7
RMcG
 
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Thanks again sh0rtlife,

I have been thinking about your posts (thanks for them-they're quite helpful) and doing more research online. One interesting method I turned up was using the edge of an old plastic credit card to get off the old clear coat, see at about 5:00 in this youtube video

At this point, I am inclined to used that (1) credit card procedure to remove some of the peeling clear coat, (2) wash the car with a high pressure hose at a DIY car wash, (3) wet sand and/or clay bar the sections I want to work on to remove as much dirt and contaminants from the paint and prep it and then finally (4) try a procedure something like what is in this "Sweet Project Cars" youtube video.

In this "Sweet Project Cars" video they use a polisher with Mothers Metal Polish or Turtle Wax Premium Metal Polish to clean up the paint and either feather or completely remove the remaining "islands" of clear coat. They get a good shine doing this, then they use a wax to protect and bring out the shine. They use Meguiar’s M0616 Mirror Glaze Cleaner Wax, but a post further down (under "Hey Mike") says that if you use Meguiar's G200416 Hybrid Ceramic Liquid Wax, you can get a shine that lasts 6 months. Some of the Amazon reviews do say that this hybrid wax does last months long, so it it credible. BUT, as you point out, a lot depends on how well I can clean up the underlying paint. A tent would not be a necessity for this approach.

I think that this procedure would meet my needs of a temporary relatively inexpensive fix until I can do something more permanent. There are relatively inexpensive polishers out there. A more permanent solution might be a wrap of some kind (roof, mirrors, trim, etc) or a ceramic coating.

If I can really get the underlying paint looking good with wet sanding and/or clay bar and then the polisher with metal polish, I might be tempted to put on a ceramic coating, which would be more durable than a hybrid wax. Here, for example, are posts link1 and link2 by somebody who used a ceramic coating (Opti-coat) on peeling clear coat paint that was prepped (it appears the prep was by wetsanding and using Maguiars M105 to prep the car).

Any more comments you or others have will be appreciated.

Thanks again,

R.
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Old 06-23-2022, 09:53 PM   #8
RedRide
 
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Bad pealing clear coat is a common problem... at least in somewhat older ones On my '09 hatch back, I had to get the top and some other areas repainted because of it.

Anything else might just make it look s hair better at best... that is until you you will need to eventually have repainted anyway. That is unless you do not care how it looks .
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Old 06-25-2022, 05:08 PM   #9
sh0rtlife
 
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masking tape is another option for pullng the seperated clear as well, or at the very least ripping a hole in the middle of it so the credit card trick will work, the biggest issue is the need to have it "exposed" so that anything with an edge will work in the first place, often times the presurewasher will pop em and lift everything that can be lifted easy so you dont need to card them, tho with bubbles like that theres a good chance you still need to break them open with something just to get the presure to work

as for method, personaly i wouldnt use metal polish..its NOT designed for paint and can/will leave metal flake polished in a weird missmatch to the rest of the body

my personal take is to wet sand the edges of the clear and then buff with standard maguires "low cut" compound BY HAND..as using a maching will likely go thru the very thin factory finish....sometimes you can get lucky but your talking about an allready fragile surface, then do a rub n buff with a rubbing compound then finish with high shine can of magires black..that should hold you in oregon for probably close to a year before needed to re-wax, the big ticket here is that every time it starts to lose its luster re-wax it

stay away from anything "turtle" brand.....as far as mothers metal polish goes..its GREAT stuff but WILL leave dark/black residue in the edges of any/everything its used on which is exactly why i wouldnt use it...works great on headlight restoration btw

ive yet to try the hybrid ceramics yet from maguires as im not sold on the concept and price
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Old 06-27-2022, 02:41 PM   #10
RMcG
 
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Thanks for the replies RedRide and sh0rtlife,

I will definitely take your perspectives into account.

sh0rtlife,

QUESTION(S): What type and grit sandpaper would you use to do the wet sanding?

Do you think a buffer (i.e., an electrical buffer) is really important to do the rub & buff step, or do you think hand buffing would work for the rub & buff step? Even if the rub & buff step could be done by hand, would an electrical buffer save a lot of time and effort?

You say you think that your approach would last about a year in Oregon.

QUESTION: Do you mean Western Oregon or Eastern Oregon, or both?

I also live in the Pacific NW along the coast (where it is similar to Western Oregon-- wetter, milder temperatures), but plan to drive to Montana to work for a couple of weeks at a time & then return. The climate in Montana is similar to Eastern Oregon (very hot & dry in summer, cold & snow in winter).


QUESTION(S): What about using clay bar to remove dirt and impurities before doing the rub & buff with a rubbing compound, do you think that is necessary?

Do you think that a ceramic coating would be an alternative to using wax and would bond to the paint that has been polished and prepped properly?

Here's an inexpensive ceramic coating that is pretty highly rated on Amazon link.

RedRide, I just want something that looks fairly reasonable from a distance. In time I may repaint and/or reapply clear coat. I am not sure it is worth it to me to have the roof and other areas of peeling clear coat repainted and clear coat reapplied professionally. But I think that I may try a DIY version of repainting and using clear coat with spray cans eventually. There are some DIY approaches to doing this that are described on youtube that seem to work pretty well.

Here are a couple of examples, there are others:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbSIjsUeWZQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_v8qPqPmr0

Some kind of DIY partial vinyl wrap or plasti-dip is also a possibility.

Again, I am wondering about using clay bar to remove dirt and impurities, before doing rub & buff with a rubbing compound, any comments?

QUESTION: Do you think that a ceramic coating would be an alternative to using wax and would bond to the paint that has been polished and prepped properly?

Here's an inexpensive ceramic coating that is pretty highly rated on Amazon link.


Any more comments you or others have will be appreciated.


Thanks again,

R.

Last edited by RMcG; 06-29-2022 at 12:29 AM. Reason: add question about importance of an electrical buffer and the type & grit of sandpaper
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Old 06-29-2022, 04:03 PM   #11
sh0rtlife
 
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im west of portland sooo...

as far as grit i wouldnt use anything more agressive than 400 and youll need to still be carefull as the color coat is "thin"..personaly id try some 600 as a trial n error and see what happens, you may find its plenty or you may find the 400 is needed

as far as clay bar..if you were working with "good" paint sure clay bar is a good idea but your trying to salvage...so skip the bar..its going to be a waste of time..besides a rubbing compound basicly goes one step beyond what a bar will do, if anything youd sand rub buff polish bar then wax

skip the machine as well, since your working with a more delicate surface id personaly do it by hand, and "if" i felt the need to step it up in any area id break out a 5inch palm sander with a buffing pad, but i wouldnt bother to go with a big 10+, id only break out the 5-6 if there proved a need to which i dont forsee

alot of the industry is yelling to do ceramics..me ive yet to justify the price and try them....fearing its just another fad like the "nano wax"
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Old 07-01-2022, 02:12 AM   #12
RMcG
 
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Thanks sh0rtlife,

I intend at this point to pretty much follow your suggestions. I washed the car today and used rubbing compound on a small area of the roof that no longer has any clear coat and then "buffed," all by hand. The area now looks pretty good. So I will wet sand (to remove remaining clear coat or establish that some islands of clear coat are stable), then rub n' buff all by hand and then apply a good wax. And then reassess. I am optimistic at this point I can get the car looking pretty good, especially from a distance.

I will then periodically re-wax to maintain the shine and continue to think about and explore more permanent DIY solutions like a partial vinyl wrap, partial plasti-dip or graphene. Here is a graphene coating that is inexpensive and highly rated on Amazon.

For others who may be interested, here is a pretty detailed youtube description of various kinds of waxes and coatings: What’s the best? Wax, sealant, ceramic coating or graphene coating?

Thanks again,

R.
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Old 07-01-2022, 01:41 PM   #13
sh0rtlife
 
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from my experiance with all of the various "nano" wax gimics ive never found anything that was worth a crap..atleast in the terms of shine when it comes to water...and by this i mean that i think the coating just gets washed away out here in the pacific north WET

since i do high end RC cars ive ran various water repelent and shine tests on rc cars mostly my nitro rigs and other stuff that sees alot of water and mud, id actualy dissasemble lay stuff out and spray it down with various products, and honestly NONE of the "spray wax" stuff works be it on painted stuff, raw plastic, or "clear" plastics ie tail lights n headlight materials

the only remotely good "spray wax" coating ive come across that holds up is i think "speed shop" its a blue bottle, the other one was one i cant seem to find any more that said it contained teflon..it worked pretty good and had a reasonable life span in concern to "the elements"

assuming i have time i intend to try out the spray on ceramics this winter

now if you were say in the high desert with little to no rain..i could see a spray on working just fine as its not getting washed off

my goto wax of choice is the black can of maguires UV
they sell skinny sand/brown bottles of rubbing/buffing compound of various stages of agressiveness, personaly i keep the agressive one the middle one and the fine"machine polish" ones on hand for stuff like what your doing as well as doing headlights/tail lights and such
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Old 07-01-2022, 03:43 PM   #14
RMcG
 
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Thanks sh0rtlife,

I actually asked some questions on Amazon about that graphene coating bonding to paint without clear coat and the answers I got from people who used that coating in general were not very complimentary. So I am inclined to go with a wax, especially the one you recommended. I'll just re-wax frequently, bide my time and try to learn more & think about potentially longer term solutions.

Thanks again,

R.
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Old 07-03-2022, 03:04 PM   #15
sh0rtlife
 
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truely everything short of paint or a GOOD wrap is temporary..and when i say a good wrap, look at your door black wrap at the window line..that factory wrap has been on there as long as the paint and its still good right..maybe a lil oxidized..but its held up better than the paint

can you get a shine and hold it..sure..indefinitely but it will require maintenance, asuming you maintain it as in as soon as it starts to get a lil hazy you re-wax you can hold that look and shine basicly as long as the paint thickness holds out..if you wait for it to re-dull up youll have to do the same job over again from just after the wet sanding, and this will thin out the paint faster....thus taking "life" out of how long it will last....realisticly, if you re-wax every 6mo to year you can hold the shine forever...how it beads water and how much shine it holds is the indicator of the need for wax

however a fresh shot of clear or a wrap wont really need anything
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Old Yesterday, 10:05 PM   #16
RMcG
 
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Thanks sh0rtlife,

Attached are "after" pictures. I tried to get up as much peeling clear coat as I could. I used the edge of a credit card and some wet sanding, but eventually I just went with rubbing compound and polishing compund.

Then I applied Meguiar's Gold Class Carnauba Plus Premium Paste wax to the areas with peeling clear coat. You can see it looks a lot better. And it accomplishes what I was looking for. It's not perfect of course, but I will think more about a long term DIY solution. Since I am an apartment dweller without a garage I have some limitations.

Consumer Reports rates this Meguiar's wax and Nu Finish NF-76 (and another Meguiar's, NXT Generation Tech the highest). Meguiar's Carnauba is rated 4/5 for gloss, but only 3/5 for durability. Nu Finish NF-76 is rated only 3/5 for gloss, but 4/5 for durability. I plan to wax the intact clear coat (on the sides) with Nu Finish. I called Nu Finish and they said you can apply Nu Finish on top of carnauba wax. I may try to Nu Finish on top of an area of the Meguiar's (after at least 24 hours for "curing") to see how it looks and if it increases the longevity.

Addendum: I thought I was using a wax that Consumer Reports rated highly, in fact I used Meguiar's G7014J (Meguiar's Gold Class Carnauba Plus Premium Paste wax). Meguiar's G7016 (Meguiar's Gold Class Carnauba Plus) is rated much higher than G7014J. G7014J is only rated 3/5 Gloss and 1/5 for durability. G7016 (which I did not use) is rated 4/5 Gloss and 2/5 for durability. Another Meguiar Wax, Meguiar’s NXT Generation Tech Wax 2.0 G12718 is also rated 4/5 for gloss and 2/5 for durability.

Thanks again,

R.

P.S. if you look closely, you can see indentations on the roof from a Montana hail storm. It was the worst hail storm I've ever been in and caused millions of dollars worth of damage in the city I lived in in Montana. I think it was one of the worst hail storms (maybe the worst) they'd ever seen too. This was maybe 8-10 years ago.
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